Estela Ortiz English Transcription

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Well today is August 17, 2023, my name is Amanda Ortiz and for my project

research titled “Puerto Rican Bomba Fashion: Consumption, Performance and

Meaning- Making” I will be interviewing Estela Ortiz. Thank you for being here Estela, it’s a pleasure to have you.

Estela Ortiz

Thank you, it is an honor for me.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s great, the purpose of this study is to collect and document information from Puerto Rican Bomberos, Puerto Rican Bomba practitioners about their experiences with Bomba and the Bomba dress to understand the deeper meanings and uses of this dress. We start with the demographic data questions. In Estela’s confidence, if you don’t want to ask anything, we will go to the next question, or answer any question, we can go to the next question. How old are you?

Estela Ortiz

I just turned 70, 7, 0.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Congratulations.

Estela Ortiz

Thanks thanks.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And where do you live at the moment?

Estela Ortiz

I live in Cataño, Puerto Rico

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And have you always lived there?

Estela Ortiz

Well, I moved to Cataño in ‘89. Before that I always lived in San Juan, which is where I am from, I was born in San Juan, in Santurce and I lived in different places but always within Santurce, until 1989 when, because the family was expanding, we bought a house here and since then I have been here in Cataño.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

What do you do at the moment?

Estela Ortiz

Well, I am the artistic director of the Areyto National Folkloric Ballet of Puerto Rico and I am also a folkloric dance teacher at the Luis Roberto Soler Carmona School of Fine Arts in Barceloneta, Puerto Rico.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And what type of education have you completed and where did you complete it?

Estela Ortiz

Well, my study, I completed a bachelor’s degree in science with a concentration in mathematics at the University of Puerto Rico, Rio Piedras Campus. I also did, what we would call a minor in education. Later I began my master’s studies at the Advanced Center of Puerto Rico and the Caribbean, but due to family reasons I was not able to finish them and it remained as a pending agenda, but my completed studies were the bachelor’s degree in science.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay.

Estela Ortiz

Concentration in mathematics because it was more mathematics than science.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, and what gender do you identify with and what pronouns do you use?

Estela Ortiz

Feminine, she.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And what is your sexual orientation?

Estela Ortiz

Heterosexual? The thing is, I mean, I have to confess my ignorance about that kind of thing.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No, no problem.

Estela Ortiz

I don’t, I don’t subject to inclusive language because it really gives me a lot of work. I respect everyone, but it gives me a lot of work to change the way I speak. I apologize from the beginning because it would be very difficult for me to change the way I express myself right now.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

There is no problem, everyone, we are all learning, so there is no problem. Can you tell me a little about your family? Like what’s the dynamic, how big is it?

Estela Ortiz

My family, well, unfortunately, my parents have since passed away, I was born in a home of three siblings, one brother, I am the youngest of three siblings. My older brother is an archaeological anthropologist. My sister is an interior designer, but she worked more as an assistant in a federal government office in the judicial branch and I am the crazy one in the family, although I studied science and mathematics, and I was a mathematics teacher for a time, I dedicated myself to the arts. Then after I got married, as I tell you, I was already 32, 33 years old when I got married, I started my family. Currently, I am happily divorced, but I had four children, who are my greatest pride. Those children are all grown now, they are all living in the United States.

[ Cut 4:33- 5:10]

Estela Ortiz

The oldest studied aerospace engineering, the second studied civil engineering, he worked at NASA, the second civil engineering, the twins studied business administration at the University of Puerto Rico as well. The girl dedicated herself more to marketing and tourism, so she went to study in Boston. Her little twin sticked more, more to the area of ​​management and banking, so I am blessed to have professional children who, who fill me with a lot of pride because my main goal, despite this, concerning the issue at hand, even though I decided to dedicate myself to art and culture, which is a very unstable branch to put it in a nice way, my interest is for my children to have their studies. So, that part is very important to me, because I feel super proud of them and that they are my life. They are all in the United States but with communication today one does not, one does not stop communicating in the part, right, we can see each other daily.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, you can still feel a little bit that they are still there with you.

Estela Ortiz

Of course, always, always, always, always.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Do you have any physical or movement disabilities?

Estela Ortiz

No, thank God no, knock on wood.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Could you share your household income at the moment?

Estela Ortiz

Well, it’s possibly around 30-35, it fluctuates a lot.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay, and do you have any religious or spiritual affiliation?

Estela Ortiz

Forgive me?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Do you have any religious or spiritual affiliation?

Estela Ortiz

Well, I’m Catholic, I really try to practice my religion as much as possible but, well, I definitely identify a lot with the Catholic religion.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay, well thanks for sharing some of your demographic data. So let’s talk a little about Puerto Rican identity. What does it mean to you to be Puerto Rican?

Estela Ortiz

Well that, wow…

[Cut 7:40-8:09]

Estela Ortiz

Well, as I was telling you about being Puerto Rican, being Puerto Rican for me has different ways of answering that question, the most logical one would be I am Puerto Rican because I was born in Puerto Rico, and that makes me Puerto Rican, but we all know that where you are born does not necessarily define how you feel about your identity. So, being Puerto Rican, I think that it is a person who identifies with the cultural values ​​that we have in our town, with the heritage that we may have that is a mixture of three races, but that has been evolving, nourishing itself from, from, from immigrations if we can call it like that from our Cuban brothers in the 1960s and those of the Dominican Republic in recent years, but we are united by cultural ties that make us adhere to what we define as Puerto Rican values, so and you, you I have to explain it this way because I have met many people throughout my life who were not born in Puerto Rico, but who for me are Puerto Ricans at heart. And this, I understand, goes beyond where you were born, it is where you grow up or how you grow up or these values ​​that you know and learn to love.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

I love that response.

[9:40-9:46]

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Has there been a time or have you had any interaction where you have felt more or less secure in your identity as a Puerto Rican?

Estela Ortiz

Wow, every time I got on stage to dance, my hair stood up, to represent what my culture is, and I can specify a specific moment, it was the first time at a festival of folklore, being with Areyto, on the opening day, on the opening afternoon, each delegation, this was in 1974, each delegation had to go with their musicians to the microphones and play the national anthem of their country, and as in these first years and in like always in Puerto Rico, now thank God not so much, but before there was this concept that everything that comes from out there was bigger or better, and we had to start fighting to eradicate and erase that mentality that we are little. . And when I listened to the countries that came before mine, again, I was a dancer and a substitute dancer was not even a, I mean I was just, almost new to the group, I had barely been in the group for a year or so, and you listen to all this groups in the world, some of them with bands that looked like martial bands with an orchestra, and we, on the one hand, due to economic limitations, we couldn’t have so many personnel, so many musicians, but what we had was, I can take the risk to tell you, two Puerto Rican cuantros, a guitar, a güiro, it was a very small group, but listening to the Borinqueña, the essence of being a martial air like all the other hymns, was a dance, it was so sweet, it was a melody that reached you to the soul, of course it reaches my soul because it is mine and it is very, it made me discover a new world of what I am doing here and what I am representing. I can tell you that very, very much that is like a moment, an eureka moment, whatever you want to call it, where I discover what I am doing and what it means for me to be Puerto Rican. For me, music and dance are linked in my soul and in my heart, that is what makes me Puerto Rican, now things that do not make me feel Puerto Rican, on the other hand of your question, it makes me very sad, very sad at times, but it doesn’t stop me from feeling Puerto Rican, when some people don’t value what they have. As I see some people, and I’m not talking about young people, I’m even talking about older people who behave in a way that makes us look bad, but that doesn’t make me feel less Puerto Rican, that makes me angry, it’s not the same. On the contrary, it makes me very, very sad that perhaps this is an image that is being taken to the outside world, because today you do not have to set foot outside of Puerto Rico to give an image of what Puerto Rican is.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s how it is.

Estela Ortiz

But with social networks those borders are erased, but I have never, I have never felt less Puerto Rican, not at all, not at all, on the contrary.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

It’s very special that you can have that distinction between, sadly, there are people who put a negative image on being Puerto Rican, but when you are sure of your identity and what you really are, that doesn’t necessarily affect, right, how you feel. …

Estela Ortiz

No, it’s not going to affect how I feel, I mean I am going to feel, I can tell you that it’s going to make me very angry, consider that you are in a group that is giving a bad image, you’re likely going to feel helpless perhaps that you can’t, if that is the image that they are sending to those outside the group or to the community or to the group, well that is not correct but I understand that the aim of making me feel inferior to the contrary reaffirms me, because something being done poorly does not, it’s not what I am or what we are, you understand, and then, well, of course, my very personal opinion, I would find it very difficult for something, or anything, or anyone to make me feel less Puerto Rican.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And what elements or characteristics connect you with your Puerto Rican identity?

Estela Ortiz

Sorry I didn’t hear you well.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

What elements or characteristics connect you with your Puerto Rican identity?

Estela Ortiz

Aside from the music and the dance, oh it’s difficult for me to explain it to you, it’s the culture, you understand, it’s the, the, and the culture and our values. I think that we as Puerto Ricans have a sense of, nowadays it’s called, empathy, it is called empathy, no, it is a nice word. I’m not much of a nice talker. My thing is to work with my feet, but you wanting to shake hands, you talking and feeling like you have a connection with a human being that you barely know, well, this can happen, and I’m going to give an example, I’m kind of off and on, but for example, you’re in a medical office, or you’re in a grocery store, you’re standing in line and a person comes and starts talking to you and you start talking to the person as if you had known him all your life, I have even seen people who share things that are personal and you wouldn’t tell them, but that camaraderie, that way of establishing ties, I think that’s very Puerto Rican, you understand, I don’t know how to describe it in prettier words that you can understand, but they are ways of being that the Puerto Rican has of brotherhood with the other, it does not matter if he is from here or from another country, the, the, offering your help selflessly, the strength that was seen after María, during that time the word resilience was used a lot, and I’m going to confess that I hadn’t heard it much before, but yes, that, that strength to continue, that you fall and get back up again. I know that this has a lot to do with how you have been raised and the values, but I understand that as a people we have it, because I don’t want to get into politics, but anyway, a people that has been in, fighting against empires, however, that way of being of Puerto Rican has endured, no matter who he is or how we are in political terms because I understand that that defines the Puerto Rican, that since the Creole emerged in the 1960s, 1970s little by little it is defined and there You are beginning to see a personality, those of us who are here have qualities that make us different, that is how I see it, I don’t know if I answered your question.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yeah, and you explained yourself very well, right, that character that you feel about Puerto Ricans, kindness, you explained yourself very well and it makes sense, is makes sense. Let’s then, thank you, right, for those very passionate responses, let’s then talk a little about Bomba and your experience with the Bomba as such. Currently, you are active in your participation, right?

Estela Ortiz

Forgive me.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Are you currently active in your participation?

Estela Ortiz

Yes, yes, well, not so much in dance class as a dancer, forgive the redundancy, but directing.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okey, then, do you dance or is it…

Estela Ortiz

Well, I try, excuse me for two seconds…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yeah, no worries.

Estela Ortiz

Okay, I dance in rehearsals, in classes, very little now in one, in a presentation and well because I am no longer honey, it is not the same, the energy, the energy is there, but the body is not, the body is not as young. I don’t feel, but obviously I have to adapt to how I am, which is not how I was 20, 30 years ago, now I prefer not to dance, but to inspire others, help them do what, and apart from passing the baton, you follow me, for example in my group, well, I, I understand that since I took office, I actively retired from dancing, I assumed the role of teacher, of helping them to be better dancers, better performers and the same in the school. Obviously, at the school where I teach, I dedicate myself to training, but it must have happened from time to time that I have had to put on a suit and dance and well, I feel like the grandmother of the group, but it has to be done.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Of course, and then when you are practicing or teaching, are you part of a specific region or do you practice all regions a little?

Estela Ortiz

Well, look how can I explain to you, I know that you are talking about Bomba specifically, as my training has been with Areyto and Areyto is created by the Institute of Culture to preserve the different musical manifestations of folklore, campo dances, Bomba dances, plena dances, well, as I can tell you, I’m not going to tell you I’m doing the Bomba del Sur or the Bomba of, no. As for Bomba, our root, as I can tell you, we learned from the Cepeda family that it is more like the Cangrejero Bomba, which has a lot, I understand that it is quite similar to Mayagüez, it has its differences, I don’t want to get into that because it is not the one that I practice, me, we in Areyto and the one that I work with my students is basically the Cangrejos Bomba, Bomba that the Cepeda family taught us. Yes we play the Bomba of Loíza from, specifically, Loíza village in the beginning of Areyto we received instruction from the Ayala brothers. And so, I limit myself to those two, to those two, in Bomba, I limit myself to those two manifestations, but, for example, I urge my students to learn, to search, to continue. learning because around the entire island along the entire coast you are going to have Bomba manifestations, each with its variants and they are all very valid, so, but the one that I can work with is the one that I knew from the first instance, which was more like the Bomba of the area of Cangrejo.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And when was the first time you got involved with Bomba?

Estela Ortiz

Well, the first time I started watching Bomba was when I entered Areyto as a substitute dancer and normally the first dances they taught us at that time were campo dances, so Bomba was more for the pros, for those who had more time, but in a performance you saw everyone, you, I mean maybe I would play my tiny part, but you were still seeing all this dynamics behind the scenes, or maybe some rehearsals, and I had the joy, the luck of seeing, because at that time, I am talking to you again about 1972, as Areyto we had the collaboration of the Cepeda family, I am talking to you about Don Rafael Cepeda, Petra Cepeda, the children included Jesús, Carlos and Chichito and Luis Daniel, Carlos and Daniel, unfortunately, are not with us, so they passed away. From time to time there was also Roberto Cepeda, one of the sons who also danced, and Perucho, may he rest in peace, too. So I could see the root, that was my first contact. At the same time the Loíza Aldea stamp was made because as I told you, Areyto works on different folklore prints, when the dances for the Santiago Apóstol festivities were made in Loíza Aldea I could see the collaboration of the Ayala brothers’ family, and it was like you see two completely different planets and I would have to play a part in this because when I entered Areyto in ’72, the differences in the way of dancing were very marked, very marked. In the costumes, too, in the way they dressed, there is no bone, they were similar, they had their differences, but what stood out most was the difference in the way Bomba was danced by Petra Cepeda or Ester Ayala, who were the two examples that I saw, I’m talking to you about 72, 73, those years until 75 more or less I continued seeing it all my life but that is where I first came into contact in those years, which I did not dare to put I wasn’t crazy about performing, nor would they have put me there, but I did have the joy of seeing the best dancers.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And from then on you continued with the same group and became more open to dancing?

Estela Ortiz

Yes, as I can tell you, in Areyto it is like, was or still is, like one, as if you go to a ballet that you enter as a student and then you enter, if they accept you in the company because you are a beginner and little by little you can become, to become part of the company, but you are not a soloist, then you are a soloist, then you are a principal dancer. That whole path, I was blessed to walk it. I entered as, as a substitute dancer, that is the equivalent of saying that I was on the bench in a basketball team, that literally there was a bench and I sat on that bench and hardly danced, if I danced in a 45-minute show, a piece or two was a lot, but it was a university. Why? Because sitting there you could, you saw everything on a stage as it unfolded. You see those figures that I am naming, [inaudible] of the experienced dancers in the company that were there at that time. So having that wealth and that exchange, seeing those examples, that’s why I tell you that if I die and am born again, I want to start over sitting on the bench, because it was the best thing I could do. So…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Estela Ortiz

Later, later, as one learned, but I can tell you that many years passed before I could start dancing, well, I could, you could learn choreography because the stage production of the Bomba in those years was not as Bomba is now carried that, as I say, your generation of young people took the Bomba off the stage and returned it to the people, but at that time the folklore performances were purely for show. It wasn’t, it was, there were their distances, obviously, for example, the Ayala brothers’ family celebrated the feast of Santiago Apóstol in the Ayala batey all their lives. The Cepeda family always had their Bombazos with family, not like they happen today, which are multitudinous, but what you could see most, and it was more like, as you can say in Spanish, catering to tourists, more focused on tourists, presentations aimed at tourism so that they could learn a little about our culture, so it was more of a kind of show, a showcase so that visitors could see this, and in the same way it was also carried out to the schools so that the children could learn. That was a very important task that cannot be taken for granted. I totally admire the youth that, that, that has, as I say, and specifically in Bomba, which is the topic at hand, that has taken the Bomba and taken it off the stage, but you cannot forget, the work done not only from my group, from other groups and from the Cepeda and Ayala families themselves, and all the other families, Alduen from Mayagüez, in Ponce, that is, who gave this type of show to, a show to teach the public that Puerto Rico had a culture which she had to learn from and feel proud of. That is a part that is very important, that we cannot forget that what young people have today they owe to the groups that started it and they cannot, they cannot demonize it. “Oh, that’s a show,” okay, it’s because of that show that you got interested and you saw this and you liked it and, and you followed it, you continued to spread it, you gave it back to the people and that has incalculable value, really yes, but anyway, I, I learned from a very young age, well, I am still small in height, but I learned that one has to respect elders and one has to respect teachers, and you cannot forget that initial work that was done with its virtues, with its shortcomings or its defects, but it was a work that compiled and exposed the elements of our culture so that they would become known and spread. I totally missed the question, but…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No, but it is a very important point to recognize those who came before you and especially because they did the work of educating and preserving this tradition. So it is a very important point. Nowadays, right, could you give me an estimate of how often you are participating in the Bomba or teaching the Bomba?

Estela Ortiz

Well, we were on a break from teaching so normally once, at least twice a week I am working with Bomba, either with my students or in my group in, in rehearsals although we have a repertoire that we have to, right, that we always have to rehearse, not everything is Bomba as I told you, but if we work, I would tell you at least, personally at least twice a week I am working with the Bomba to, for the purposes of teaching it, to work on choreography if I had to, that kind of thing. In terms of spectacle for the, for the, the general public, you can see that they are a little more like, it is not isolated, but they are, they are not so frequent, not like I can tell you one, I wish it was one a week, but maybe once or twice a month we can have a presentation where one of the presentations, if it is Areyto, one of the presentations will be Bomba. If it is with my students, depending on the type of presentation, we will most likely do Bomba because the young people love it and the public too and well, we have to, we have to continue working on it.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And I can ask this next question twice because it may be a little difficult to understand at first, but with your knowledge and experience teaching Bomba and, and practicing with many people, what messages do you understand that they should know about Bomba? For example through social media, or education, among other means?

Estela Ortiz

Well, I work on my culture, I understand that perhaps today, and I am not doubting it, they identify Bomba as resistance. Because I learned Bomba, as part of a cultural, educational, and entertainment fusion or, as how can I tell you, showing our culture to other people both here in Puerto Rico and abroad, well, I didn’t see another message beyond the purely educational and cultural, of teaching you what is our essence, which is an integral part of being Puerto Rican, which is our African heritage. That for me was what, the edition that I had. I understand that over the years and specifically in these, since the 90’s movement began to start making these Bombazos and spread it more to the people and in the last decades, two decades and a half, Bomba has been taken as an instrument beyond an educational cultural spectacle but as a form of protest, of resistance, which is the word that is most used and I do not doubt it, because these generations have been identifying and taking hold of this feeling of struggle through Bomba as a vehicle. I don’t like, and I have to say this very carefully so that I am not misinterpreted. La Bomba belongs to everyone, the culture belongs to everyone and you can have a completely different ideology than mine, but Bomba is going to be as much yours as it is mine. You know, I can’t say, “no, because your beliefs are different from mine, I, I have more of Bomba,” no, Bomba is part of that Puerto Rican being that we talked about from the beginning. Whatever people want or believe, political or religious, that doesn’t matter to me. My mission or my message is to tell my students, this is part of your being, this is part of your culture. Definitely, the Bomba yes when you sit down to think about its development, it definitely was an instrument of resistance. Why? Because it was the way in which the enslaved person could in some way, at first possibly relieve himself of all their sorrows, there is the possibility of them not being able to communicate with the person next to them because these enslaved people did not necessarily come from the same place in Africa, and Bomba gave them a vehicle for expression, beyond words. Today that Bomba is a vehicle of expression also in the generation, right, of youth and there are many who have also reaffirmed their African descent, but even though I look white I still have my love for the African heritage that I have to carry in my DNA. So for me, I wouldn’t want something that is part of our essence to be politicized. I don’t criticize it, I don’t criticize anyone who wants to do it, but I wouldn’t do it, well, how can I tell you, I’m not going to use Bomba as a vehicle, as an expression for this and, to protest, no, whoever wants to do it can do it, you have every right. They also do the same with Plena tambourines, what protest have you seen that there is no Plena, but at the same time you are going to see Plena at a basketball game, you understand, you are going to see an expression, because they are, they are part of our culture, and they are going to be used to express many feelings. You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t use Bomba just for the purpose of protest, no. For me, Bomba is a celebration of my idiosyncrasy, and the fact that everyone can use it in the way they think best is fantastic. I mean, it’s like, my mission is, in any case, it will be to educate you, to teach you, what you carry within your being. Why? Because I experienced it. I didn’t see myself standing in front of a Bomba drum, I didn’t feel qualified or worthy of standing in front of a Bomba drum, because you said, “no, this is for those who know,”, no, and today It’s quite the opposite, you urge and encourage anyone to take that step because they have it within them. The same for Puerto Ricans, the same for someone who comes from outside who is interested in learning. For me again, it is something educational and cultural, I know that it has historical value and that it has tremendous social value and that it has tremendous potential, but it is not the branch that I am going for, I don’t know if I explained myself.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, yes, you explain yourself well. And with your experiences with Bomba, and I imagine, right, we talked a little about this, but what, what have you gained through this experience?

Estela Ortiz

Well, it is an inner richness, right, it is a richness of your being, of your soul, it is you discovering ways of expressing yourself that is not, it is very difficult to put them into words because it is an expression of a movement, an expression through a movement, through rhythms that are going to give me, how would we would say in Spanish, an outlet, a way of getting out, of expression, come on, of the different feelings through the different rhythms, you know, for me what I have earned, I am not going to tell you that it is fame or money, that, but it is an inner richness and at the same time even if it is an inner richness I want to share it, it is something that gives me, it has given me the tools to be able to reach different people, so it serves as that vehicle of, of, of cultural expression, come on, it is difficult for me to tell you this because it is definitely not that I am going to gain any money, well, the richness is totally interior is a richness of the soul, it is a power of, of, of knowing how to express yourself, it is a power to communicate and, and make others discover and develop in this art and can find those different ways of expressing themselves also through that movement and those rhythms.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, what you have gained is not necessarily just material, it is beyond, and completes you in that way. And you talked a little about rhythms, I’m curious, do you have any rhythm that you identify with or that, right, you like more than others, or some rhythms?

Estela Ortiz

Well, look, in my youth I identified a lot with the Holandes rhythm because it is a fast, dizzying pace, in which you are constantly like firing a machine gun in the sense that you are expressing it with a lot of vitality. I liked it a lot right now it is very difficult for me to be able to execute it, no, I just, I am self-flagellating because I know that I will not be able to dance like I danced 20-40 years ago, definitely. In recent years, I would tell you, from 80, 81, 82 within my role as a dancer in the company I began to be associated with the Yuba rhythm, and the Yuba rhythm is a rhythm loaded with emotion, a rhythm that I can tell you that, I wanted to use the word powerful but I don’t want it to be misinterpreted, it is a very deep rhythm. The Yuba is a rhythm that you are not going to dance with either your skirt or your feet. You dance it with your soul, and in other words one is transformed. It’s not you dancing, it’s your ancestors, your essence, it’s all that you are carrying inside of you, expressing it through your skirt, your feet, your gaze, I mean, it’s so powerful, well, and I began to identify with it, with that rhythm later on. In my youth, it was the Holandes rhythm because I was very agile and I had that, and later with the years, and I’m going to tell you, it was a very difficult rhythm, because there were some monsters in front of me that I said, I can’t fill those places, nor those shoes. I’m telling you that in Areyto, the first time I saw a Yuba, Petra Cepeda did it with her brother or with one of our dancers and then with her dad, I mean, this example that I’m telling you was that when you danced you were gathering a whole inheritance from one, from one generation to another no, of you carrying a message each with his, with his personality, each with his way of expressing the feeling and that was, sitting down to watch those experts dancing a Yuba was…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

I can imagine.

Estela Ortiz

It was something else, later, later at a given moment, the Cepedas separate and decide to work, we had to start developing our own soloist, we already had a soloist and as I say, I came in as a substitute, you know, I didn’t see myself, it took me almost 8, 9 years to stand in front of a drum, 7 would be more exact, I started and then little by little, well, I learned the Holandes, as I told you it was more, but I was more choerography, yes you danced you improvised but it was more within a more, more, as I say, less profound framework. When you arrive at a Yuba, which in our case, in our [inaudible], I would tell you that in the case of almost all the productions, the staging or, or, or formats of the different groups, the Yuba is a solo dance. With everything that involves being a soloist in any dance company, be it classical ballet, be it contemporary dance, a soloist you say, wow, you don’t have anyone around you, if you make a mistake, no one knows but, well, it’s you, that responsibility is yours. Well, in addition to the responsibility of your dancing as a soloist, it is you doing a dance with an emotional charge like that, that is, standing in front of a drum that seems like the drum is going to swallow you, you understand, it is a respect that you have there is, it is you filling some, some, trying to fill some, some shoes of some monsters that passed before you that have handed you a baton and you say, “okay,” at that moment you can’t think, you have to dance. I remember that on many occasions in another dances, I feel, coming from mathematics, I, I sometimes structure a lot, and once, well, once my teacher told me, “Mimi,” they call me Mimi, “don’t think, dance.” And they were, it’s the best advice they can give you. The same one that I give to my students today, don’t think because if you start thinking all these limitations can come to you, all these fears can come to you. You have to surrender at that moment. From that point on, I identified with that rhythm and for me it was not only a responsibility but, well, it’s not something that I thought, I’m doing this, no, no, at a moment like that you can’t think, not even in how am I going to look, or if I’m pretty, or if I’m fat, or if I’m skinny, no, no, no, no, you’re dancing. You are, in fact, you are expressing a past and, who does not say, a present and a future of a people through a dance. You understand, well it is such a big responsibility for you to carry out in one minute, two minutes that you can do a single front of a drum.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, if you start thinking about that burden, you never do it.

Estela Ortiz

You don’t do it, you don’t do it, and today, because one has many hangups, it happens to me, it has to happen to anyone, it matters to you, how they see me, or the one who saw you when you were young, you understand , all these types of insecurities and things have to be removed from you when it comes to dancing because what, what people want to see is that you are dancing, and I recognize and confess that I have stopped dancing because of that type of fear, of perhaps not meeting expectations or, and, possibly it is a mistake, I should continue dancing because I like to dance, but I think let me give an opportunity for others to develop, so that others have that opportunity, and I have moved away a little from that world of presentation. But, I mean, it is a very big responsibility for me, in any type of setting, be it a stage, be it a Bombazo, be it you going to dance. Yes you have to do it by demonstrating one thing or another, but hey, come on… I always go off the rails, you have to give me one kick to talk and a hundred to keep me quiet.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No, do not worry. I like it, what you’re saying is relevant and it’s again part of your experience and that’s what I, right, what I’m looking for are those experiences that maybe other people when they see this feel identified and learn that, that is what is important. So thank you for opening up and sharing those important experiences and opinions and knowledge. Let’s move on to the clothing and this is an open question because I would like to hear since you’ve been in the world of Bomba for a while, that evolution of the dress that I imagine you have seen with your own eyes since you started until today if you can.

Estela Ortiz

Well, see the question is very interesting, very valid. Bomba, it is said that in a, in the beginning the women did not, they did not dance as much or they did not dance at all, I am not aware of having seen that written, I have heard it from, from people who have actually studied the subject a little more. From my personal experience, when I join the company, all my reference will be in Areyto because it is, it has been my school, right. When Areyto started I wasn’t there, Areyto started in ’68, I started in ’72. When I started, the whole costume, that whole scheme was already done, but so, what, what, what, I learned, the costume that Areyto used, a fact, Areyto was formed at the request of the Institute of Culture by Don Ricardo Alegría. Don Ricardo Alegría, who was the first executive director of the Institute of Culture, had seen that in that decade what was our culture, our dances, and our music, was being lost, and he wanted Puerto Rico to have a national folkloric ballet like Mexico had. For example, in that decade, you went to Mexico and the first thing they did was take you to the Armani Hernández ballet, the Mexican ballet, the Mexican folkloric ballet, Moiseyev in Russia. I mean, all countries, Central and South American, including European, had folkloric ballet and Puerto Rico did not have that. Yes, there were, as I can tell you, families that were dedicated to their essence, right, to their cultural heritage, rather. The Cepedas were always working on their Bomba. The Ayala brothers in Loíza village and in the different regions of Puerto Rico, well, what was appropriate, but there was no ballet that could combine all of that. Don Ricardo does it and he gives us not only the teachers that I explained to you a minute ago, but he also designs some costumes for us. That first Bomba costume design is going to look like this photo that I sent you, where you see that it is said that those where the woman’s preferences when dancing Bomba and it is very important to recognize, as I had said at the beginning, the cultural-historical framework in which this type of dance is developed. Yes, in the case of the woman, and you can hear this in one of the first albums that Don Rafael Cepeda recorded, an important part of the woman’s wardrobe was the petticoat and the, the woman, she had a lot of pride in prepare that enagua with ruffles, with little bows, it is said that in some places they put a mirror on it to ward off the evil eye with superstitions, and that they decorated their petticoats and that the purpose of dancing and lifting the skirt was to proudly show off their petticoat. But that skirt was a skirt of what they used to call 3 varas, which is approximately 3 yards. I always say when someone asks me, look, the peasant women from the campo dances, the mountain dances, were poor people. Puerto Rico was not a textile industry country. If the peasant woman was poor, how could the enslaved woman be? So, this type of skirt is a rather narrow skirt. It was the gesture, in the case of the woman when she starts to dance, that I would have to know that I would have to start studying a little more about the subject, when the woman starts, if she didn’t dance at first, at what point does it begin to occur that the woman was actively participating in the Bomba dances, well that, that, that gallantry in this style of Bomba of Cangrejo or perhaps in Mayagüez too, that they will dance with movements of the skirt. In the case of the man, it was the movements of his arms, his feet, etc., but the women’s clothing, it was essential that she had a petticoat underneath that skirt. That first design that looks very similar to this photo I sent you was the design that Areyto adopted. As Areyto is formed to preserve this, rescue and preserve and disseminate this cultural heritage, these are, as I can tell you in my very modern language, the charms that I have that I, from there, from that heritage that they gave me, look, this is what Areyto has to cultivate and I won’t go away from there. As time went by, it started to become popular and in the case of Bomba, which is what we are dealing with, in the 90s, many people defined it as the era of the Bombazos, the generation of the Bombazo. They begin to spread this Bomba, to be taught in different dance academies by different people, and then, since not everyone is going to invest in that type of costume that they saw, like a show costume. Even, well, it included the scarf, right, the hair covered with a scarf that was a very simple scarf, we tied it here, but there were, there were different ways of tying the scarf and today and little by little it was transformed. When this generation, as I say, takes Bomba and takes it out and takes it to the streets and takes it to the town where it should have never left, but then to spread it and to make it more accessible, in the case of women it begins, they begin to dance, they begin to dance the Bomba like, like, with whatever you have and that skirt is, in many cases, replaced by a scarf, by a sweater, by something that you have or by hands, simulating the movement of the skirt. So the concept of the traditional costume that we had and still have, because Areyto has not changed, was beginning to be erased. It is being eliminated, so that it can be on the streets and that anyone who sees a Bombazo can join in and dance, even if you don’t have a skirt. Little by little they begin to make skirts, to have skirts to dance with, to participate in Bombazos and I obviously attribute it to Tata, to my dear friend Tata Cepeda, who is the granddaughter of Don Rafael Cepeda, she always wanted to go further and give it an expression to, to, to her feeling and giving and as she says for the skirt to speak to her and she begins to create a skirt design that obviously goes, expands in order to achieve an effect that she wanted to have, to give it more visibility to that, to that, to that movement through the skirt and she begins to create that type of skirt that you see today that are, I don’t know how many yards, but it may be more than 7 or 8 yards, I don’t know that, as I say, you put one of those skirts on me and the first thing I’m going to do is hurt myself because I will handle skirt with stress. The important, 3 yards, the important thing in this is not that you have a wide skirt or that you have a small skirt or that you dance with a scarf. The important thing about this, what I tell my students, is that you learn that in the case of women it is that, that, that conversation, that expression of yours with the drummer. You are talking to him. Traditionally, the woman dances with her skirt movements. If you go to Loíza, what I learned from, from the Ayala brothers’ family, was like I told you at the beginning, they were like two completely different planets. You saw an Ester Ayala when she danced and many of the Ayala family, I’m talking to you about the 70s or something, 73, 74. They danced, the girls danced with skirts. The fashion was a little different in the, in the, in the in the shirt, in the, in the, if I can get the two models I will send them to you, but they did concede that they had a skirt, with the difference that in Loíza they grabbed the skirt, not to show a petticoat, they grabbed the skirt and they put it up with everything including the petticoat to be able to move their feet, because it was more of a foot game, it was a more, more, more grounded style than the style…I’m going to make a redundancy, more stylized than the Cangrejero Bomba. The Cangrejo Bomba when you saw and again because these little eyes have seen, I know, you saw Don Rafael Cepeda standing in front of a drum and he looked like an Andalusian gentleman, in bearing, you understand, he looked like an Andalusian in front of a, a flamenco guitar, in bearing and a Petra Cepeda dancing with the galvo, of course, as that dance developed and you felt that drum inside you, well, this other movement begins to emerge, this other movement more, more, what can I tell you, more related to, to your African heritage. Bomba continues to be a mixture because, in many Caribbean countries, the slaves also imitated one, in principle, perhaps their owners as well, seeing how they were Frenchized in Haiti, in some French colonies, that is, there are always dances that look like dances of quadrilles that were dances of high society, I mean, the, the, the, folklore is nourished by many influences, but what is the essence, obviously it is one, it is one, an African essence that you can start with some styles and little by little you will vary it, but to the extent that the heat of the Bomba dance takes over you, that is when your ancestral DNA comes to play, but in principle and style, that bearing and that, and that elegance and that way of starting to dance was totally different between Bomba from Loíza and Bomba from Santurce, from my experience. I am not telling you that it is like that, as you said, there is no right or wrong answer. I am telling you about my experience and it was wonderful to see how on such a small island you could see two completely different things, but the essence remains the same. The essence was that communication with the drum. Therefore, in terms of Bomba fashion, how did it evolve from a dress like the one I showed you in the photo to little by little taking those Bombazos to the streets and seeing that women can be dancing in leggings with a scarf or a majestic skirt like the one Tata Cepeda created to be able to make her movement, obviously, that style and that skirt, and what you are dancing with, is going to make some differences in the execution of the movement, because you do not dance with a 3-yard skirt, the same movement that you want to do, you cannot do it the same with a 3 yard skirt as with a 7 or 8 yard skirt. The, the, the width of the skirt will change the execution of the movement, but again you are not looking for who looks prettier, uglier, who looks more majestic than, obviously, a wide skirt is very attractive, but what you are looking for is that connection between the dancer and the drummer, I mean, for me the skirt is that instrument for you to express, but it affects, right?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, of course. And how, how much importance do you, right, Estela, how much importance do you give to, to, the dress, the clothing? Is it something you need, something that adds to it or not?

Estela Ortiz

Well, like so many things I have to explain it to you or answer it with 2, with 2, 2 ways. For Mimi, for Estela in Areyto as director, that dress is important. Why? Because I have this mission to tell my people, “look, this is what there was, this is what was used and this was the fashion when these dances began to develop and this is what we have as a mision of, of educating and preserving.” It’s like you saying, I am going to search, before it was the encyclopedia, today it is Google, how they dressed, you who are in an educational institution, what was the dress of the high society, high society in the 19th century, when people went to a dance hall or a casino, etc., etc., which is not the same as a peasant woman in that same 19th century, working in the, in the vineyards or in the, you know, so it is, it is important. In the case of Mimi, the teacher, I the teacher with my students, for me yes, the skirt is important because I understand that you have to learn to handle it to speak with the drum. Once you learn to handle the skirt, you can let it go because you will continue using your body or even your hands simulating the movement of the skirt. The skirt, for me, is a very important instrument. In the case of the dress, that is, of the, of the, of the, of the fashion as such that I have in Areyto is extremely important due to the mission that concerns us as a cultural institution. In the case of, my role as a teacher at the school where I work, it is important to help you express and communicate with a drum in terms of performance. If later you don’t have the skirt, you don’t need a skirt to talk, but for me it is important.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay. So, right, if I’m not mistaken, you said that today you use clothing that is more similar to what we know as traditional dress.

Estela Ortiz

Yes, we have not changed. At Areyto we have not changed that dress because it was designed for us by Mela Ponce Alegría. I imagine inspired by the photo or by the, by the, by the records that there were, I mean, I wasn’t in Areyto at that time, but that’s what I started to see after joining the company and I started a, to search and look and I see that yes, those clothes were definitely used and, and it was also the same clothes that our teachers had, the Cepeda family used that dress, that same model, they changed some details, like for example I used In the gingham fabric, they call it gingham, madras, which are little squares, but basically the details were, they were very similar, the model was very similar, what changed perhaps was the, we always used the color white. They decorated white with gingham on the ruffle or peplum, they used madras or gingham, but basically the model was the same. For me in Areyto, it is extremely important to maintain that. Now, in other, in other aspects, it can be done, I have seen very beautiful combinations from other groups that, for example, our petticoat is a petticoat that I say is in danger of extinction because the petticoat with embroidered strips are almost no longer available in, in fabric stores here, in fact, there are almost no fabric stores, you know, it is very difficult and the embroidered strips with which the petticoat was been decorated, they almost don’t come like that anymore, there are almost no petticoats like that. So you put ribbons on that embroidered strip, you put little ribbons on it and that is a job that many groups today are not going to do, you understand, but in my case, well, it is necessary that I maintain that and as a fact in the Smithsonian Institute, which you may have seen, they gave a well-deserved recognition to my dear Tata Cepeda and the traditional clothing that Tata displays on display is precisely a clothing that is, it was the one that was used in the family, which is the same that we had and have maintained. So that costume that is displayed in the Smithsonian as traditional is this same costume. That is has evolved and changed, fantastic, yes, definitely, but the one that is exhibited in the Smithsonian museum is that traditional one and, with Areyto, I don’t get out of there. No, I don’t criticize nor, on the contrary, I admire and I tell you, if you put one of those skirts on me I’ll have a hard time in the first 3 steps, but I understand that it’s evolution that you can’t stop.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And how important to you is where you get your clothing? For example, you talked about the stores, but also, right, there are the seamstresses.

Estela Ortiz

No, it has to be from a seamstress. That, I don’t know, I don’t know if some stores don’t, well I’m not going to say, right, I don’t want to give free advertisements. Some stores sell different types of costumes, but I understand that these costumes are, they are, I see it as a craft, I mean these costumes for me, the figure of the seamstress is essential, because it has a lot of detail and that is not something that you can, well, I don’t know, I don’t use Shein, or any of those things, but I don’t think you can get that anywhere. I think that this is a costume that you definitely have to entrust to a seamstress and to a seamstress who knows, it can’t be just anyone.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s how it is. And do you think that the context in which the dress is used takes away from or adds authenticity to the clothing?

Estela Ortiz

Well look, there is a saying that the habit does not make the monk. The place where you present yourself and depending on who you show up for, the costumes for me, well again, in the case of Areyto it is very important because it is part of our, our mission and it is what we have to do, but still I have seen other types of groups that puto n a dress and it is very traditional, if the movement they are doing is one that is not the most traditional, then it is of no use to you, it is of no use to you to have the dress, if what you are doing is not the most appropriate thing.

[Cut 1:07:37 – 1:08:37]

Estela Ortiz

In the context, if you are doing, for example, a presentation to show what we had in the past, etc., which is what we at Areyto dedicate ourselves to, clothing is essential to me. In the case of something more modern, what matters most is the essence of your movement and depending on what you have in hand, the costume is an accessory, which can be additional, but where you present yourself, well, where and to whom you present yourself also has a lot to do with what your purpose is in that presentation. In the case of the youth, for example, who are not necessarily going to dress in clothing that is not from this time, that is going to make you horribly hot and everything you want, if you are going to dance because you you want to express and you are in a context, like I tell my students, as long as they don’t twerk, I don’t have any problem whether you have or don’t have a skirt, because that expression of, of, of the dancer with the drummer, again, this is purely my opinion, but the habit, I had also told you that the habit does not make the monk, because you can have a whole traditional wardrobe and if the movements that you are doing are not the most traditional ones, then of course It’s worth nothing to have the wardrobe. There is a combination of many things, I don’t know.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And do you think that who wears the clothing adds to or influences the authenticity of the costume?

Estela Ortiz

Come again, the audio is choppy.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, yes. Do you think that who is wearing the clothing influences the authenticity of the dress?

Estela Ortiz

I would have to tell you again, the habit does not make the monk, but there are definitely people and there are people, that is, if you have a, how can say, a public figure from any, from any cultural, political, sporting context, a public figure, if they put on a costume, I understand that beyond representing the issue of, of a dance as such or a folkloric heritage, what they are doing is representing a cultural identity. So in that sense, depending on who has it and how and what they use it for, it’s not going to make it more or less authentic. I understand that it is the purpose that you have when you put on that clothing, not who has it, because, again, there may be someone who puts on a traditional costume and the movements they make are not traditional, that is, that is like saying I have similarities with Marilyn Monroe, you understand, well, it depends. Just like there may be a person that you can maybe see, let’s say I’m here or there is this person in jeans, he’s in flip flops and at the moment you tell him to dance and wow, you know. So not necessarily, now you see a person of, of a, of a tradition of, of a tradition, of a heritage in, within that, of that cultural manifestation and they put on a dress, well it does imply respect, you follow, an honoring of their roots, but I won’t necessarily look at another person with the dress and say wow this one knows. I don’t know that’s my opinion.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, yes and it also makes sense as, as you said, that there is no point in putting on the dress, if you haven’t been educated, if you don’t have, right, that, that experience, if you do not respect the genre. This next question may be a little redundant, but it is to confirm, as you have shared, you have a lot of knowledge about Bomba and its clothing. From whom or where have you acquired this information over time about the Bomba and its clothing?

Estela Ortiz

Well, look, my first one, my school has been Areyto, my group because Areyto was nourished, for me, by the best exponents, you understand, that is, Don Ricardo Alegría, may he rest in peace, he put, Doña Irene was my teacher, Mrs. Irene Jiménez of McLean, who was our first artistic director and she, Don Ricardo, put her in communication with Don Rafael Cepeda to learn more about the Bomba, right, because in other aspects, well, it was other people. Don Rafael Cepeda for the Bomba, which is the one from, right, the one from the Cangrejo area, Santurce. With the family of Castor Ayala, the father of the Ayala brothers for the part and variant of our beautiful Bomba, Bomba of, of the festival of Santiago Apóstol of Loíza village, the masks, the different costumes alluding to, to, the festivals of Santiago Apóstol. Well, I tell you, well my little school was Areyto with these people who are managers, they are not managers, I don’t know how to say in Spanish, the correct word that they cultivate this, for generations, these keepers or these cultural guardians.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Guardians…

Estela Ortiz

Yes because it is an inheritance, that is, the family, how many generations there are of the Cepeda family and of the Ayala brothers. In this sense, I learned from them through Areyto, because they were in Areyto. Then, of course, little by little I’m looking and I’m studying, and I’m expanding my, my vision a little more to see what they have in Ponce or what they have in Arroyo, Guayama, Mayagüez, because well, they are roots, I mean, it’s Bomba with different variants, but it is still Bomba and then also the, the, the part, how it evolves I start looking at it with the eyes of a spectator, you understand, to see how this has changed over time. When I started to work at the school where I am working, I see there were already some, some established models that were a little more contemporary, a little more modern, and since my vision is more traditional than anything else, that one never stops learning, I am not removing or detracting merit from the slightly more modern or more contemporary versions, because they have their value, as a person once told me that young people are interested, but they also wanted to see it relevant to their, their generation. So I understand that culture is dynamic, that culture evolves and that culture changes, but that you have to change from a perspective of what is the root, what is, if you want to innovate and make a costume of a certain century, yu want to bring it, but you have to maybe keep one or two design elements that that are from the original. In terms of dance, in terms of choreography, Doña Irene said that you could stylize as long as you knew the root and I understand that that applies a lot of discipline, but for me, well, where I nourish myself first, well obviously from Areyto because Areyto had the best teachers in those two families and, and then little by little looking and observing and, and reading the little that is written and I hope that you, you will give us more contributions on this because it is very valid and, and I recognize and respect generations like, like yours, that are taking care of what my generation didn’t necessarily take care of, transcribing and taking and putting it in, in black and white for posterity. Because it is one thing that I have worked on it, but on the day I die what I know will leave with me, however, what you study and, and, what is it called, and kept is very important and that is something that maybe very few of my generation did, so I applaud you.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, but I must also, I would like to add that the work that you did of, of disseminating it through experiences, of classes, that is equally important, because if it were not for that, right, there would be nothing to document I mean, I couldn’t do this if it weren’t for, for, for the experiences that you have acquired doing it, right, and like, you need both to, to be able to move forward.

Estela Ortiz

Yes, definitely and support each other because you have the tools and the knowledge to preserve in a way that we at that time did not, we could not, it is like, it does not have much to do with it, but in the time of the Taíno Indians, the Spanish were the ones who documented, through what they could see and observe and write in the chronicles. Obviously, it is the point of view of a Spaniard, maybe you would have asked a Taíno, they would say, “Look, these scoundrels came,” you understand, I mean, but the Spaniard told you from his perspective and we didn’t have those tools. In our case, well, the, the, the tool of, of us, how I can tell you, preserving and disseminating has been through more, more than anything in our case, practice. Right now we are resorting to the, to the tools that social media give us, the, the, the virtual part that, that the pandemic forced us all to, to venture into, but in the case of you, and again you are helping to, to document this and to, and to research and to, and to, and to save for, for future studies or for posterity, for other generations and you are doing work that is very necessary. We, as I say, I’m not saying no, because there were people who dedicated themselves to studying and going to find out how was danced, but rather it was an oral tradition. The, the dangerous thing about oral tradition is that it lasts as long as your informants last, so if you don’t manage to rescue it by whatever means, the people, that, that, those managers or, or cultivators of folklore to the extent that they pass away, if no one interviewed them, if no one could write down their experiences or whatever or learn from them, then the tradition is lost, that’s why this part is very important, it’s like you say, we, we, we have to support each other. Of course, again, it’s my opinion. You are going to interview a lot of other people and reach your, your, your conclusions, right, and each person has a different reference, right, they have different experiences. What I can have, I can tell you, “it is not mine, it is Areyto’s and the people from whom I learned.” All I have done is maintain, in the case of Areyto, it is maintain a, a guide, I mean, some costumes, some traditional forms, and if I wanted to innovate, well, it would be another work from or based on, but I am not going to get away from my roots, it would cost me a lot, you understand, but again I appreciate the other people or the other groups that do it because they are giving life to the tradition.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, and they are very important points that not only, and something that I have also learned a lot from this project is that Bomba is not a single thing and not only one person has the answer, it is how, there is diversity and sometimes it is complex and sometimes there are things that, perhaps they are contrary, but they are equally important and no, we cannot, right, ignore one and, and raise this other one, we also should recognize them as well. So let’s go now, to my last 3 questions. Does your experience with Bomba’s clothing influence how you feel as a Puerto Rican?

Estela Ortiz

My experience?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Does Bomba’s clothing influence your identity as a Puerto Rican, how you feel as a Puerto Rican?

Estela Ortiz

Well, it supplements, but it’s not going to change who I am. It adorns me, let’s put it that way. I can wear a dress, a Bomba dress, and someone once commented that I would transform when I got dressed.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Oh wow.

Estela Ortiz

I don’t see it that way, I, I’m still me. Yes, it is a very great pride for you to wear that, that, it’s like you saying, well, I imagine what it is like for a Miss Universe, in our case, to be able to wear that outfit with pride, well, yes, it will make me, it doesn’t change what I am, perhaps it exacerbates it for me, it exalts it for me, because that is to be carried with pride or to be carried with a lot, how can I tell you, with a lot of respect. The one inside that dress is still the same, at least that’s how I see it. There are those who say that I, but I don’t, that’s for you to find out because really, I, I still feel the same. That perhaps with a dress, perhaps with a dance, one transforms and becomes something other than what you are going to see here, perhaps, but that is something magical, I mean, Amanda, that is something that, no it’s nothing, it’s not a fabricated answer that I can give you.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, of course and that’s not what I want.

Estela Ortiz

I don’t know. That it helps you feel, yes, definitely. You are not going to feel the same in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt like you are going to feel in a traditional wardrobe.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, of course, and do you think that your other identities influence how you feel when you have the, the clothing or is it the same as, well, it adds a little to you?

Estela Ortiz

Are you talking about, for example, a peasant dance dress, a Plena dress, etc.?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No I am referring to Bomba’s dress, but with other identities I mean that we are people, but we are made up of different identities, for example, I am Amanda, I am a student, I am a woman, I am of African descent, I am Puerto Rican, I mean those different parts of my identity, because maybe they influence how I feel with an outfit, is it the same with you and the Bomba outfit or maybe it is different?

Estela Ortiz

Well look, I would tell you that the dress is going to summarize all those that you are talking about in one, because in my case, to say the Bomba because, apart from Bomba, I work with the other genres, right, and I feel equally passionate and proud of them all. But I understand that you putting on that dress is like you combining all those identities of yours, because you said Puerto Rican, student, because one does not stop studying, even if one is whatever age one is, teacher, because it is my job, the professional or the dancer. All of this can be summarized in, I would tell you that it is like that dress, it is going to unify all those identities that you have talked about. I wouldn’t have seen it that way, but when you identified yourself like that now, I say, but putting on that dress is like you saying, “okay, come on,” and putting them all on. That’s why I said it’s a big responsibility, it doesn’t change who you are, they amplify it and it’s like, exactly, it’s like this coat that fits everything together.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

How beautiful I love it, I love that explanation. And so my last question is, do you think, well you don’t think, does your experience with clothing influence how you dress on a daily basis or are they like two separate things?

Estela Ortiz

Well, those two, two, two completely different universes, because on the daily, I don’t wear a headwrap, on the daily, very rarely I wear a skirt, on the daily, I am a little more, just as you see me, but you know, I mean that costume, well yes, in my case, it is for presentation. The skirt, for example, to teach there is a rehearsal skirt, which is not the costume that you, that is, from the photos that I have presented to you, it is a rehearsal skirt that is very similar to the width of the, the, in my case, right, at the width that I manage. But no, I mean, I don’t know if I understood you correctly, but in my daily life I don’t. I, I do recognize and admire a lot of, of, of women that I know who, for them, work with the Bomba, they work with everything that has to do with their African descent and they proudly wear their headwraps or wear, you understand. I am a totally different person because I don’t usually dress like that, as I tell you, I barely even wear a skirt. It’s like I’m telling you there that they would be from 2 planets, but come on, I wish, I don’t see myself or visualize myself dressing with any feature of that type of clothing, I admire the person who does it, but not me, I’m not like that.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, yes, that is valid.

Estela Ortiz

It doesn’t take away, it doesn’t take away from, from, the fact that the moment I have to dress in the Bomba costume, all the feelings that I described to you in this hour and a half are in me, regardless if I have some leggings, some jeans, you know, that, that is there, that as I told you earlier, well, they do amplify and it’s up to you to decide, “okay, I turned on a switch.” But I will always be like this. This is me.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

It never takes away from you, from who you are and you, and your essence. Well Estela, those were all my questions, this was the interview, I thank you very much for all the knowledge, for having opened up so much, for your passionate answers and, and, and for the work you are doing, right. You are doing super important work, preserving and spreading this, this, this tradition, this culture and I really appreciate it very much, that you have taken the time to be able to share with me, before ending as such with the recording, would you like to share anything else?

Estela Ortiz

Well look, Amanda, first of all, thank you because as I mentioned at another time, your generation is taking care of a part that is very important for cultural preservation. We have focused more on the practical part than anything else, but documenting, investigating and writing down all those types of things were part of what, in my case, obviously, I keep talking to you about Areyto, because it is my house, it is my foundation is, is, is my foundation. Areyto begins with all these types of studies, with people who dedicated themselves to research, but this research cannot stop. This research did not have at that time the tools that you have and, in truth, I see you as a representative of a generation that deals with something that is very important. I take my hat off, I applaud that you wanted to dedicate yourself to, to this, to these, facts about our culture, that perhaps another person does not give it a second thought but for you it is very important. Yes, you are going to, it is going to be conducive to a master’s degree, in your case, which I wish you much success and I wish you many blessings, but I know that this little piece of, of, of experience that you have had, I am more than sure and convinced that it has given you one, one, it has opened a little window of something else that you are going to want to continue exploring and we need many Amandas. We need many people like you who, well, I am a little crazy and passionate as you say, but I am sure that the seriousness and love that you are putting into this is going to be very fruitful, so those are my words for you and extended to young people like you who have dedicated themselves to this. To whom I have great gratitude.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Thank you, we also need more Estelas here, more passionate, I love it, thank you very much for, for those words. [Cut last few seconds]