Alberto Diaz Cruz English Transcription

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Today is June 28, 2023, my name is Amanda Ortiz and for my research project titled “Puerto Rican Bomba Fashions; Consumption, Presentation and Meaning Making” I will be interviewing Albert. Albert, thank you for being here, it is an honor to have you, it is an honor that you are participating. The purpose of this study is to collect and document information from Puerto Rican Bomberos about their experiences with the Bomba and the Bomba dress to understand the deeper meanings and uses of the Bomba folkloric dress. We start with some questions about demographic data. How old are you?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

67…6, 7, they don’t believe me because they say I look super young, I say even better, but the body is not 67, I mean, the body is not young, it’s 67…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And where do currently live, Albert?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Bronx, New York.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And have you always lived there?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Many years here, in Puerto Rico, in Ponce, here and back, because mom always left me there, as I say, she left me dumped, without knowing that it was going to benefit me a lot, so I graduated from middle school and high school there, and then when I was going to start university we returned to the United States again.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

What do you do for a living?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I am a retired elementary school teacher, so I am dedicated to the, to the our group Cimarrones, Cimarrones Ensemble in New Jersey, and to spiritual things that have to do with the philosophy of life, our practices, it is a, they are spiritualities Indigenous and African, because I traveled to Nigeria, they also initiated us there, which is a rite of passage, it’s a rite of passage, it’s a stage, it is not, it is not religion as such, but it is a very simple philosophy of life, very healthy, and very African, and they welcomed us there as if we were the prodigal sons who returned to the motherland, which was a very beautiful thing, I also saw, in some kiosks there was food that looked like our fried foods, so they also said that I, I, I kept my diary, I recorded many things, wrote, made videos, and took many photographs, they say “epa,” and we Puerto Ricans say “wepa.” There is a spiritual, cultural connection, very special for me.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Forgive me that I didn’t do this earlier, but I called you Albert, but I don’t know if you prefer Alberto, or if you have another name, right, I should have asked you before but I’m asking you now to be sure.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

What happens is that here, I never went to kindergarten, I never went to kindergarten, to first grade, so they called me “Alberto,” and mommy gave him a yeyo as we say, and without knowing how to speak English she went, mommy is very small, very taina, of height you know very small, so she went to school she made a scandal and said please don’t call me that because that was not my name, my name was Alberto, so I had teachers who made the effort , that every teacher is supposed to make the effort to pronounce names properly no matter what country they come from, so that stayed with me, I wasn’t ashamed because I really like my name a lot, because mommy told me that my Dad was the one who gave me my name, but they call me Albert and those who don’t know how to pronounce Alberto call me Albert and that’s how I stayed and some call me Al, and as a teacher they called me AGC, because of my last name. You can call me Albert or you can call me Alberto, whichever way you feel comfortable, it doesn’t matter.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay, thank you, and really forgive me for not doing that sooner.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, no, it’s okay.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay, what type of education have you completed and where did you complete it?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

At the University of Colombia, teachers college, and I was preparing to do the doctorate, but I didn’t want to do it because I wasn’t interested, I wasn’t interested in that…studies yes, because I like to study and write and all that but no I was not interested in what, what sometimes one has to, they give you homework at the university, and then you have to talk about the same…dissertation, I didn’t want to, I found that very boring, I like to evolve and learn and follow and travel and things like that. I like to learn a lot, and I saw that at the University of Colombia, after they catch you, you are theirs, and I didn’t want to be anyone’s. Of course, I do represent my university, I still go to the activities because it is a tremendous university and the teachers college school is tremendous, everything, the university is tremendous, but I did not want to be trapped in that role, it is the way they told me, I didn’t want to be either a principal or a principal assistant, I liked being with the students or the parents much more, that caught my attention more, although they told me, “you can be a leader, you can teach other teachers,” and I would say no, I’m not interested because that’s politics and paperwork, red tape, that doesn’t attract my attention, at all, at all… but I like it more, as they say, “I like to be behind the scenes and working behind the scenes and I know that I am making an effort working behind the scenes and, working behind the scenes, I get to, the reward is seeing people moving forward in whatever it is they are doing, I love that, that fills me, that fills me, my spirit, my heart…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s beautiful, and what gender do you identify with and what pronouns do you use?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

How is that, what they are doing now, they, him…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And I ask this to respect, just in case…

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, I understand I am, like I am Alberto Diaz Cruz, that’s it, he/him whatever you want, male, I’m gay if you want to know, I’m gay I’m also sure I have my partner of 12, 13 years, I don’t know if it’s relevant, I would have liked him to be my people but I didn’t have the chance, he is dark American, but that is dark American from the south and he has values very similar to ours and he has learned a little bit of Spanish, a little bit of Bomba, he knows how to dance salsa, he knows how to dance bachata, merengue, he learns things and has a very, very incredible diction because he learns it and he learns our vocabulary in context.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Oh super, super that’s a green flag.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, yes, he must, is he listening to me? Look, when we went, I’ve been to North Carolina, he’s from North Carolina, three times, and he’s been to Puerto Rico three times, and when he went he was surprised because mommy said, “oh, you’re Puerto Rican,” and a lot of people. In Puerto Rico they thought he was Puerto Rican, because he is dark-skinned.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

You know that Puerto Ricans come in all shades.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Rainbow, yes, yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And can you tell me a little bit about your family, where they’re from, how connected are they?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Connected to what? As a family union?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Well, we are from Ponce on our mother’s side, I am a half-brother, they say that they did not raise me as a half-brother, but they did treat me, I would say like I was insignificant, like the black sheep, because mommy knew my dad here, she was already married but she was divorced from her first husband, so her first husband went to the army, mom found out that my dad was married but he was not with his wife, so she left to Puerto Rico, she took me there, she left me there, then there she met her first husband again, who is my stepfather and they returned to the United States and remarried, so I have two sisters older than me, younger than me, they are sisters from my father and mother, but I’m in the middle, so mom didn’t allow me according to her, because of my stepfather’s issues, she didn’t want me to see my dad because my dad always wanted to have his children, he always wanted to be in our lives. So my dad was a native of Humacao, so I remember several times that we went to visit him but after my stepfather found out, he didn’t let my older sister visit my father, so that affected me a lot because I needed my father. Every time they found out that I was in Ponce, my dad found out, he would go there, but I was no longer there, because they moved me back, I was like a bouncing ball.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

From here to there, from there to there

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, but I had the joy of sharing with him, with a brother of mine who died, with a sister of mine on my father’s side who lives in Florida, I met my entire family, the Diaz family, my aunt who was my dad’s older sister, he introduced me to all of them and for the first time that I met them all personally, it surprised me, because we all looked alike, my entire Cruz family are little ones like that, I say Tainos, they are little, that generation was little, I was really big and tall, compared to them, so when I met the Diaz family, all, all, all, it was like looking at myself in a mirror, because I looked at all the faces, the girls and the cousins and we all looked alike and that did something deep inside me, so my dad had, look, he had kinky hair, but he had green eyes, but it was the same face, the same face, now I look like mom too, so they say me, “look you look just like your dad,” and it’s true, so I needed it, to this day, my dad died in 1992 because he was found dead in the apartment, he was, it seems apparently, he was fixing some curtains and fell, and had a concussion.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Oh, wow.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Then there he was for a week and he had a woman, they were like companions, they helped each other, she needed him and she looked for him and she had the keys to his apartment, he had the keys to her apartment, so she opened the door, and there…that was around Christmas time, it was around Christmas time, which was really bad for me because my birthday is on Christmas Eve, so imagine, I’m now in, with my sister Evelyn, who is his daughter, looking for where we buried him to go visit the grave to do what I need to do spiritually with him and psychologically I need it, I need, I needed my dad to protect me, my mom to protect me, and she didn’t do it properly, she never hit me, she never hit me, but he did allow my stepfather to mistreat me and say a lot of very ugly things to me, and I grew up with all those traumas, but therapy helps a lot and Bomba has helped me quite well, because mommy’s grandmother, mama Ia, she always told us when we leave here, to put our country at a very high level, with a lot of pride, I have that in my blood, since I started Bomba because I don’t consider myself a Bombero, nor a Plenero, that is part of our culture. One of the things that I remember as a child, in Ponce, the carnival and the vejigantes and the Bomberos there in Ponce since I was little, I remember crying and screaming because a vejigante scared me so my grandmother took me in her arms like that and I remember being in her arms crying and crying from fright, and then the vejigante came and I was devastated and I calmed down and grandma was there, so that was my first experience, now with the pleneros it is different because there in San Anton the pleneros where there you already know, I think you’ve already heard a lot of people in Ponce, we used to go there in San Anton and they would play raw plena, raw plena, improvising and singing and eating and doing all that, it was always a very unique, very special celebration, us there in Ponce, because there they also have, each town has its tradition and its branches, but it is as we say in English, same difference…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s right.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Instead of us looking at the differences, we should appreciate the differences and see the similarities, the similarities in the Puerto Rican differences, and now that is rising to a very special level.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s right, thank you for sharing that story, and I’m really sorry, I’m so sorry about your dad.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Someday I will write a memoir.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

A memoir yes, but thank you for sharing that and for opening up like that. Do you have any physical disabilities?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Well, after, at 67 years old, I have to have surgery on my right knee, is it the right or the left? I had the right one done, on my left leg years ago, therapy helped me a lot so since I go to the gym and I’m taking boxing classes with a girl who is tremendous, really cool, that’s helping me too and when I get surgery I won’t need as much therapy as my doctor told me, but therapy also helps because it gives you a lot of therapy on how to walk, because imagine, I don’t want them to do what they do to the back, oh no, hip replacement? Oh my…and that was also because I…I was an athlete in Puerto Rico and always when they had the field days there I always won and when we went to San Juan to compete with the giants from Carolina, although they were big, they were tall and the girls too, I ran like crazy and I always won the titles for our school and they always put me in front because I ran like crazy, I climbed fences and things like that. I can’t do that anymore, now I have to walk slowly, I have to take it slowly, and even dancing sometimes I have realized that when they tell me, “Alberto dance, dance, dance,” I start dancing the pain goes away, the pain goes away, the pain goes away, and when I return home what I do is I massage my knee so as not to worsen what is already there, because that is wear and tear, that is wear and tear, and also carrying one’s backpack like this instead of carrying it like that and over the years, one realizes that the bones are scraped and scraped and worn out, that is a product of that because I consider that my legs are…not weak, nor strong, more or less I have to take them little by little and I should not walk fast, or do exercises that are very advanced that could weaken me, little by little, so yeah I am 67 for real …so yes, yes, I don’t have a disability or anything, I don’t have anything.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And can you share your household income at the moment?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Of retirement? I imagine, let me see, I, look, I am very splendid with my money, I am very splendid, it’s like I tell my partner… I studied, I did it alone, I didn’t ask anyone for anything, because when I asked they had nothing for the black sheep, so I did everything and now I am very splendid, I spend whatever I feel like spending, if I like something I buy it because I know I am going to benefit, I am like that, I would say more or less like 60 or 70 thousand a year? And also with social security, together with social security, we who worked cannot work, we who worked for the city, we can work, but we cannot make more than 30 thousand because then it affects our pension. And I’m not really interested, I’m not interested in working anymore, because I don’t like paperwork or red tape, or anything like that. For example, I can go to the school where I worked or any other school, but I don’t want to because then I have to fill out papers, I don’t want to do that, what I want is to teach, that was, that was…my vocation. I’m not interested in doing paperwork, I’m not interested, so I prefer not to work. Now, as always, I am busy with spiritual things and with the Cimarrones group, that keeps me very busy.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Mhm.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Well, very busy, always, always, that’s why sometimes, you caught me now, cool…always, I’m always busy so the thing about it, the little thing about is that in context is I am still teaching in a different context. I am still teaching.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And you mentioned it there a little bit but, if you have, you have talked about spirituality, do you have any affiliation? How do you define it?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I, I compare it, for example, at least in my family, everyone in my family is spiritualist and Creole, I am not speaking as I tell people to clarify, it is not Santeria, because Santeria came to us in Puerto Rico with the santeros in the 50s because of communism, the exodus, all that, we were all spiritualists, they are all, mommy’s branches are all spiritualists, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my grandmother, they are all spiritualists, when we are dreaming we share that, so as I say that’s my blueprint, that’s my blueprint. When I met the Santeros they were trying to recruit and I was very resistant because I said I’m not Cuban, that’s not my thing. So little by little I arrived, but my spirit did not call me, the tension filled Santeria like that, because when we come to see, Santeria is a mixture of many things, my spirit always called me and I dreamed of many things that had to do with Africa, my spirit called me something more authentic, pure and simpler. Until 30 years later I was able to travel and I saw what it was that the dreams were telling me, what was that the dreams were telling me, I had to return there and it was, for me it was returning to the motherland and it is very simple, it is a, it is a philosophy of life, it is not like they present it in Hollywood, or they present it on television of the animals, that they kill them, this and that, it is none of that, none of that that you you have seen, then in our spiritualism, it is a very simple thing, we did prayers, we do not say spiritual masses, we say spiritual evenings. We met there in Ponce, there was a time here in New York, in Connecticut, in Chicago, and in other states that had spiritualist centers for Puerto Ricans and that was like a place, they came from, they came from Puerto Rico to come to work here and where were they going to attend? A spiritualist center, even if they were not spiritualists, they went for moral support and to look for work and be with our people. Many of us Puerto Ricans at that time and my family also had a room that was rented to a Cuban, who was just starting out, or to a Dominican person who was an political exile, so we are all united. Mom raised us like that with that, that treatment of neighbor in that way, but I always say my blueprint is Puerto Rican spiritualism. Mommy’s grandmother always stressed to me that she would never forget my roots, and I never would, because I see visions, I dream, I see the spirits, they talk to me, but what I do is that, sometimes I fight with them, because I don’t want to see anything myself, but what I do is I write it, it’s like an invitation, it’s a very strong, very pure ancestral connection, because it is neither a diabolical thing, nor a bad thing, it is also what the Africans who arrived in Puerto Rico, the Tainos, were spiritual beings because they did not separate their spirituality from the culture, that’s how I understand it, and when Christianity arrived they made that separation from God, that if Jesus Christ, everything that is, I see Jesus Christ, I have a very beautiful relationship with Jesus Christ, but I do not see Jesus Christ as the only prophet, there were many prophets who existed before Jesus Christ, like the Buddha also came after, and he, the spirituality that we, we know that she is Nigerian, we also have a prophet, but that prophet, since they are oral traditions, well, you are not going to find that in a, in any book, now books are being produced about his teachings and all those things, many Cubans say Orula, but it is not Orula, it is Orumila, Orumila, he was born in one place in Nigeria and died in another, so what was it, like Jesus Christ did, teaching people through oral question, spiritual things, lifestyle, being a good human being, a good neighbor, and things like that is a very simple thing. Apparently, they say that about those supposedly lost years of Jesus, that they do not want to talk, that the Vatican does not want us to know those, those mysteries, that apparently Jesus learned from those teachings also on one of his trips, and they have proof , but they are oral proofs, what I always do, I write down, I write down, I write it down, I document it, I share it with people who study like me, because I like to study, I like it as the Puerto Rican says backing the data. The data, I want to see the data. You are telling me because someone told you, but you have not tried it, I do listen to it, I continue to investigate, I like to study, I like to read. Look, my experience in Puerto Rico was very interesting because as I think I told you, one forgets Spanish a little later we mixed it with Spanglish and when I was there they told me, in Puerto Rico they told me , “yankee go home,” “gringo go home,” So I had teachers, well I had a Spanish teacher who taught me, Carmen Vaerga, Missis Vaerga who taught me, I had two literature teachers who were twins named Ms. Diaz and Ms. Diaz were tremendous. I always passed the English classes, because I dominated English, but I always had teachers who were, who knew their history, Ms. Vaerga knew her history, for example, Mr. Perez, Jose Perez, he knew his history and he was black and he was very talkative but he was very serious so he would stand in front of all the students, for example, and say, “What do you know about Puerto Rico?” You panicked, and he asked me if I knew, I knew things like that about Puerto Rico, then he looked at the other students and said, “what a shame, you should be ashamed, you laugh at this boy who speaks strange words according to you and knows his history, and you don’t know anything, and you are from here, where you are from.” He was a good teacher, so the history of social studies was very good and then the same thing happened in literature, so, for example, I had one, in the literature class they were talking about a literary character, Puerto Rican literature, so he is, let me see if I remember the anecdote, I know that he was castrated, in other words, they had cut off his testicles and they didn’t know, none of the students knew what that meant, what it was, then Ms. Diaz looked at me like that, “Alberto, what do you understand the characters?”, and I, “well, well, they cut off his testicles, because they wanted to dominate him, they wanted him,” I explained everything, then she did the same thing, “but it seems incredible that neither of you read that story, like Alberto, that you laugh at him when he’s reading it aloud,” and she told me, “keep reading, keep reading,” and I did it little by little, “he understands the character and the story and didn’t you, wait, didn’t you, didn’t you read that story?” So she gave them more homework and she gave me a special homework to share, then she also put me in a group to help us all together, because we called them the twins, the twins because they were very good literature teachers. So those were my experiences and as I tell people, I had people who instilled in me that, the Puerto Rican pride, saying that we are not of only three races as they say, we are of many races, and Tainos, first of all, then Spaniards, and then Black and from there on out, you already know.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Mhm.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Even in Bomba I see, I think you know the Holandes rhythm?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Mhm.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

It looks like, it looks like the Irish how they dance and everything standing like that and that is influence from them too, and I also see the influence of the gypsies, and the Hindus of India, you see, there are things there that connect us, even though people want to say no, that it is not true, that it is not true, because the Bomba, I would say like any culture, no culture evolves on its own, that is impossible, some of us share, borrow, steal, influence, and I see in Puerto Rican Bomba, I see different influences from Loíza village to Santurce, from Arecibo, Ponce to Mayagüez it is very different too and also like in Ponce they put the barrel like this, it is different, I am a student of barrel, it’s not that I didn’t like it, but that they took me more as a dancer to act as a chorus, because I like it, I like it, I don’t, I don’t like to go dancing alone. I like to dance and take the people out…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yeah, take the people out dancing.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, there are people who are like that, that are shy, then the moment they see me, I take them out and they start to dance, you know, that interaction, and that is a very nice thing and you see that they are very serious and all of the sudden, they let go.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yeah, they let loose.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, and that is very healthy. I have even danced, I think I have told you at wakes, at wakes I told you that, right?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Mhm.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

At wakes and also one, a 99-year-old lady in an African American church, she also danced well, well, she went off, well we have had many experiences with our group and that is because we are all companions, not all of us are Puerto Ricans, but the irony is that the Puerto Ricans of the group are all of different colors, you look at some of the Puerto Ricans and we don’t look like Puerto Ricans, but there are Puerto Ricans, there are Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, there are mixed ones, there are all races, we are a very large group, but since we are not all available at the same time, unless there is a very large production, we have done very large theater productions, many times they are three or four hours long because the whole group shows up there, so yep.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And you spoke a little bit, right, about the pride of being Puerto Rican, right, and about the culture and the roots, but for you, what does it mean to be Puerto Rican?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

A question that, that question is…many things. I would say preserve our heritage, recognize history, that thing that they say that, if you were not born, I know many Puerto Ricans who do not speak English, they were born here, but they grew up in Puerto Rico and vice versa, so I find it really, people that say, “ah, you’re not Puerto Rican, you’re not Puerto Rican because you weren’t born in Puerto Rico,” that’s nonsense, that doesn’t make sense to me, that doesn’t make sense to me. One is what one is according to what one feels, it is a feeling, and I have it very, sometimes spiritually, I believe that I was Puerto Rican in another time and I came back, I came back in this body, because there are things, and since I was little, they told me that boy, that boy does things like old people they always told me and they are things from Puerto Rico that call me.

[Cut to 31:45]

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

What elements or characteristics connect with your Puerto Rican identity and can you describe them?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

The language, the food, the feeling, the spirituality, as I told you, the spirituality, the Creole spiritualism, the history, even though we are a family of spiritualists, Creole too, mommy raised us, I was also raised in the Catholic church, and mommy never saw a contradiction between the two, we went, for example, to church, Santa Teresita del Niño Jesús, in Ponce, Catechism classes, all those things, confirmation, and then on Sunday we went to a candle of the spirits. Mommy didn’t raise us with that thing that that’s bad, no mommy raised us with a very open mind and a very open heart, so well you know spirituality too, when I hear, for example, when I go to Ponce, I like to visit my church and I like to visit my church when there are no people, I sit there, I was once in a spiritual retreat here which is very interesting to write, so one of the nuns heard me speaking Spanish and told me, “ah you speak Spanish,” I said “yes I am Puerto Rican.” She spoke Puerto Rican Spanish, but she was American, so we started talking and she told me, that she was in the convent in Ponce for many years, so she told me, “who was your teacher?” I told her, “well, the nun Sister Isabel,” we called her Sister Isabel, then she told me, “how is she still giving,” and I told her, “she was American, right?” She tells me, “if you tell her that she is American, she insults you,” I told her, “Yes, but she had a gringa accent,” because she spoke like a gringa and she tells me what happened was that they sent as a child, she wanted to be a nun, to the United States, to study for many years, so she returned to Santa Teresita del Niño Jesús and there she taught, and she was tremendous, she was very talkative and very good and very spiritual…and that to me I said, “and what a coincidence.” Then I had another occasion in the bakery and I met someone, I looked at that girl and said, “what a pretty girl,” and I said, “I think I know her.” So I looked at her and I said, “Oh, you are one of the nuns of the church,” and she told me “no, ex-nun, because I married Father John.” I said, “oh okay,” but she was very good, you know it was very good, but seeing her without her coat, I only recognized her face, you know, but that is my church. In other words, I don’t do, in me there isn’t that contradiction that oh my God doing these things and you’re doing those things, no mommy didn’t raise us like that and I know more or less the spiritualists who remained in Ponce, the ones who are very old, the ones who died, and some of them were Bomba practitioners too, but they are very old, they are very old.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And now we’re going to focus on Bomba, right, what does the Bomba mean to you?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Carry on that tradition, preserve it, what my, my, mom’s grandmother told me, preserve our culture, no matter what, the language, all those things, and for me many years ago I had to make a spiritual celebration, it really was spiritual, so what I did and they helped me a lot from the Bomba practitioners in New York in my apartment, there were about 50 of us, we brought all the Bomba practitioners and the pleneros and they played Bomba and Plena and all in memory from my grandmother and all those people, we made Puerto Rican food, everything was good, the apartment here was like a nightclub, but it was only Bomba and that was one thing that filled the people we invited, I really didn’t know, there were very few those who knew about Bomba, that was the connection they needed, and they were, there were Dominicans and Cubans and Americans who speak Spanish and they stayed, because they were all my friends from different backgrounds, from Colombia, from the University, from my job. I invited everyone because it was a spiritual celebration for me, but it has to do with my culture, with our culture. And that was after that everyone went to take barrel classes, dance classes, now many of them are already well established, they play, they are in their groups, they even write, improvise and all that. And we all you know we still keep in touch with each other, we still keep in touch with each other, so they learn, they also write Bomba related things, they design, there is a girl who makes clothes too, now she is making clothes for boy who likes to wear his skirt and they tell me, are you going to wear an Alberto one? No, I don’t need to do that. I don’t need it, because at one time in my life I was an activist, that, that is a form of activism, I don’t need it, I don’t need to wear a skirt, for what?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And as you have said, right, you are currently active in your participation with your group, but when was the first time you got involved in the Bomba?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Look, I don’t remember, I just, I just remember that one of the, of the Bombas that caught my attention, I don’t know if you’ve heard it, it says, “I was sick, I was sick with feelings, I was sick, I was sick, but Providence came and made me well,” look, I had a time when I got sick and had three heart attacks. Yes, my heart stopped and I saw, I saw that my spirit detached itself from my body, and then when it returned I saw, I saw my grandmother, mom, since she is mommy’s grandmother. I saw her, but when she disappeared, I got worse, I got worse, because I didn’t want my spirit, I didn’t want to come back. I didn’t want to go back, so when I went to therapy, the therapist always told me, I was in a group, he always told me, “everyone here is angry with God and this boy doesn’t have anger with God, he has anger with God, because God didn’t take him, so he wanted to leave. You are angry with God because you believe you deserve ABC whatever.” No, I didn’t think I deserved anything, I just wanted to die, so many sufferings and traumas that I suffered in my life. So when I heard that Bomba, I was already recovering and the people who are in the Bomba community helped me a lot and knew my story. They helped me a lot, then one of the girls tricked me, she told me, “Oh Alberto, please,” in a Bombero club here that no longer exists, “oh, take me out dancing because you know, you know how to dance with women, how they have taught you the bomba, so you come and take me out and leave me there,” no she, me she, I took her and there were a lot of people, I took her, then after I danced she left me there and I, I said, “My God, but what, I, I don’t, I don’t dance like these people,” then I pretended like, like I knew what I was doing, but all of the sudden they started playing that song and when I left the circle, something I, I came back, and I don’t know what I did there, like my spirit was awakened, then everyone started applauding, shouting and everything, then I said in English, “shit, I needed this!” And after that, something, something was spiritually triggered, so from there I continued taking my classes, a teacher gave me the reference, another person told me, “go to her so she can help you, go so you can learn the style of Mayaguez, so you can learn the style of Ponce.” So I went to several, I had good teachers and we are still friends here there are many people who know the history, they teach you well, they talk to you about the clothing of all of them, they know history, you ask them a question and they tell you, they locate you and if you are not located, they will locate you. Well, that song, that Bomba, has always, always been with me. Now in 2011, I think one of the girls who is the co-director of the Cimarrones group told me, “look Alberto, we want to see if you want to join this group because I know you retired,” and I, “you are already making plans for me.” I don’t know what, “no, but you’re going to be good because you’re a teacher and I don’t know what.” So I, I joined, I joined, but we were already friends and from that day on I was in other groups here, but I left. I left the groups here because there was a lot of competition between themselves and problems, and for me, my spirit doesn’t go with that, so I stayed there with the Cimarrones. And we are a family, we are a family, but that Bomba has, has stayed with me and I tell them one day I want, I want to sing it, when I, how I, when I want, I, I want to sing myself, because I don’t want, I don’t want tears to come out, nor sadness or anything, because on the contrary, one, one, it was very special for me, very special for me but I associate it with that, that time of my life, it was 2011, not 2011 no, when 9/11 happened…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

2001.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

2001. 2011 was when I retired. 2001. That’s when I fell into the hospital and it was, it was, everything happens in December, I don’t know why, it happened to me in December, which is also around the time of my birthday, which is on Christmas Eve, all the things happened to me in December, my dad was found dead in December. No, I don’t understand why, I don’t know, it’s spiritual things.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, it will have a purpose.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Exactly.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And with your group or individual, how often do you participate in Bomba, like how often do you actually participate?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Almost every week, almost every week, because we always have different gigs, but they also tell us to choose. For example, you want, you want to participate in this, you have time, you are not going to travel so participate, but first we always rehearse. Last week they were, they had one, but I didn’t go because I was in another state, in another state, I didn’t participate and they participated, so they sent me photos and everything, it was in an elder home and they did great, I imagine, they were amazing and we have participated a lot in elder homes for veterans, in wakes as I told you, in church, in the street, in carnivals, in fairs, wherever we have been there, so we also do it from the heart, we don’t expect, we don’t expect to be paid, because what always happens, if they pay us, we do pro bono and in the pro bono there arise, they want to hire us, they want to hire us, and sometimes they want to hire us as we did recently, they hired us for, many folk groups, representing each country, we represent Puerto Rico, of course, almost dancing with sticks and things like that. Then at the end, almost at the end of the show, we all danced together, showing all the connection between all of us. They were dancing flamenco, a group from Colombia, from Ecuador, well, all the groups and we saw the ancestral, indigenous or African connection between all of us. And it was, it was good, it was very special for us and it was like a 3- or 4-hour show.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Wow!

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Very big, in a very large theater and we had, we had previously participated with that group of, those who dance flamenco, but only a flamenco group and us.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Those were many years, this was or another, another project that they, that they wanted. The project was sponsored by The New Jersey, New Jersey City of the Arts and stuff like that. Because they pay us and they also pay you to continue preserving and promoting the culture.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Oh okay.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Whatever culture it is. There is a lot of money there for that, in New York I don’t know, but there yes, yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, and you said that you dance, you play, what other roles do you have in Bomba?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I sing chorus, I sing the chorus. Other times I have done, for example, we did a show of about 3 hours and we wanted to pay tribute to a man who died who was, was, was a Bomba y Plena genius, so we had an intermission because what we did between each song, I made the narrative, for example, this song and I tell you the story and then we make the song and we dance and then another narrative as if it were a documentary, but musical like a painting, we did like this and then we rendered tribute to the man, well we did amazing because everyone participated, it was very good and as a writer, poet, because I, I write poems and things like that and other times we have made songs about, about, about rapping and things like that, but we set it at a Bomba pace, but we have to rehearse, rehearse because it has to, how do you say, it has to, it has to fit. Sometimes not everything fits together if we don’t do it, we don’t know how to make the arrangements, so I’m learning the Cuá which are the sticks are and I have my own barrel that was made specially for me years ago, I have my own barrel and I go to class to play the drum and all those things and I do sing and I do sing. I still don’t dare to sing alone like that but one day, like I told you, it’s going to have to be that song. One of the many that I like, because we also made so many Bomba hit parade, that sometimes we say, “oh why can’t they sing anything else, always the, the same, “temporary temporary,” always, it’s always the same, let’s sing something different.” We are not like that, we sing different things, but there are other groups that always play the same hit parade song.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And, there are different Bomba regions on the island and in the diaspora. Are you one, one, do you identify with a specific style or a specific region?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, no, we try to learn the language because for example the Cuembe, in the metropolitan area or in Loíza, they say Guembe, they play a rhythm and here they play the same rhythm and they call it different names. We try to adapt not only the language, that style, those who are playing and there are many who are teachers who know how to play, they are like us, some of us say it, some learned it and others are street Bomberos and the street Bomberos know a lot, then they know how to make the arrangements and identify it with all the styles, okay, everyone identifies there, if you are from Loíza village and you want to make it from Loíza village, then you make your style. So some of us mix everything, for example, if, I can dance, I can dance Loíza village style like them with bad legs and everything, I start from there to there. If I go to Santurce, well, I’ll dance that style, if I go to Mayagüez and in Mayagüez they use their legs a lot and they are softer, they are more like elegant, I also know how to do it because one of the first teachers I had is from Mayagüez, from the families of the Mayagüez people and we had two or 3 trips there with a very large group to learn from the elders and all that, and everyone went, it was a very exquisite thing because well, because of the mayor’s office, because the mayor of Mayagüez supports all those things, so it was a trip of food, food, of, of dancing, of producing with the students, with the elders, a very special experience for all of us, and the, and the girl who took us is, she is like, how do you say, she is one of the many teachers who preserves the tradition of her, her family, her father and mother are Bomberos from there in Mayagüez, so she, she, for example, many live here, many live here, many they live here and come to many other states because they leave, they get hired, and this teacher knows the other, the other knows the other and, what I like most is that many of the, of the, of the women, they play the barrels, they play the barrels, sometimes they play better than some of the boys and I like that because it gives power to women, you know, power to the women too, because who, who, who said that that was the domain of men only? Those women, and I know a few who play, but as they say, awesome, they are awesome, they are monsters playing and with the stamina, with the stamina, because they don’t stop, they don’t stop, because sometimes, sometimes a person starts to dance and that person is demonstrating and does not leave and in Puerto Rico I learned that there are times when they say, “let’s give them an applause,” and it means, next! Because you have already danced many times and give someone else a chance, but they don’t tell you that way, you know, they tell you it in a really kind way, “give them an applause, applause…”and we weren’t laughing, that means, next!

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yeah, yeah

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And do you have any of those rhythms, right, as you mentioned about the Holandes, do you have any Bomba rhythms that you identify with or that you identify with more than others?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I like them all, I can tell you that the one that catches my attention the least, but we have danced it, it is the Cuembe, the Cuembe, but my favorite is Yuba, but my understanding is that all the rhythms were born from the Yuba because there are many rhythms, I think there are more than 100 rhythms within Bomba, and those who know them know them, but my favorite is the, the Yuba because it is like melodious, like it calls you, like it wakes you up, for me I feel like it has a feminine beginning, like my, that is my favorite and that was the first one that I learned to play and it is played more or less, it is played the same or variations of Yuba in all the towns. I love it, I sure love Yuba, but Cuembe, I think you know what Cuembe is like, “Cuembe, Cuembe…” it’s more elegant and softer, but it doesn’t wake me up. …

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, you need something that is to wake up like this.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And he mentioned it a little bit, right, but I ask you this question again to, as they say, reiterate…

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Reiterate.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

What have you gained through your experiences with the Bomba?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

There are many things. Healing. Healing from traumas, very deep traumas. Being the historian and the researcher, gathering all the information, putting it together whether is Bomba, whether is bolero, whether is the first Puerto Rican that was in Hollywood and most people don’t know, all those things…having the knowledge that back in the 60s and the 70s that when we went to college, you know we started going to school, there where Puerto Ricans in all the state, there were Puerto Ricans in all the states in the United States, there were Puerto Ricans even in Hawaii, who knew, who knew. And how that brings us all together, because in Hawaii, I think my understanding is that there are two groups of Bomba. And it has a, it has a more or less Bomba thing, like Hawaiian Bomba. Then those who have traveled there have told me that they disparagingly called them Borikis, Borikis. A very derogatory word from the people there towards the Puerto Ricans who emigrated there. So on the channel, you know, Channel 13 the educational one, this one here, I saw a documentary about all the Puerto Ricans who went there, they stayed, they didn’t have that joy of traveling back and forth like we do, so they showed some old people, some old people of ours, with our meals and then they showed people dancing, and I said, but look, that’s bomba and that’s plena, but it had a mix of Hawaiian things, I said, “oh, I want to go to Hawaii,” I’ve never had the joy of going. And that, I loved that, how all this unity unites us, look for yourself, when we went to Nigeria to change from one plane to another, right, we are in Germany, we are in Germany, we went like 9 of us, we were 15, but there were 9 of us who traveled together, so we went to eat because we had 3 hours to wait to catch the plane to go to Nigeria, so we were talking there, in Spanglish, in Spanish, whatever, everyone was there a Colombian, a Puerto Rican, a Dominican, Newyorican and other Puerto Ricans who speak Spanish well. Then one, one of the guys who worked in the restaurant, heard us and said, “Oh my God, these are Puerto Ricans,” and he came running up to us and everything we ordered he let us eat for free, but He said, “I came here for years, I learned all the languages and never,” he said, “I want to return to Puerto Rico but I never want to return to the United States, I don’t want to know about Uncle Sam or what the hell, because he’s not my uncle, I stayed here, welcomed and what a pleasure to see all of you, when I heard you, that was like, like, like a little bell that was ringing for me because not many Puerto Ricans pass through here to where you are going? Where are you going?” So I always remember, I remember, he says sorry, he tells us, “Forgive me that there is no Puerto Rican food, but if you want I will make you something,” and we said, “no, no, we don’t want to try Puerto Rican food, we want to try food from here, no, no, we are fine, we are fine,” So those experiences like that for me, I write them, I write them because for me they are images, I keep them and that for me was very special, it was very special. And I met in New Mexico ago, I was also in New Mexico for a while, I met Yomo Toro, the great one, I think he died years ago, he taught the cuatro, he was a genius. I don’t know if you knew who was Yomo Toro, he was very chubby, if, if you became his friend, if he knew you and knew that you were Puerto Rican, you were in trouble or maybe it was going to benefit you, because then he would tell you, “you have to invite me to your house so that you could cook for me,” because he was a glutton, he was very good, so it was a party, it was a Puerto Rican party, one of the few that were there and he was playing and one of the Puerto Rican vocalists was also singing, so we were sitting in the grass with, with wine and cheese, as if we were on the beach, it was a very pleasant experience for us, because he has a friend with her husband, he is German from Germany, who lived there for a while, but they now live in Massachusetts, so later they invited us to a restaurant where all the Puerto Ricans from New Mexico meet, we also went there, they were cooking a pig and all those things, they preserve their traditions like that because they don’t have the blessing like us to be traveling here to there, to go there, they preserve it. And one, one of the things that I realized, I realized that many of them speak with the, the, the jíbaro style, they say things like that, and several of these are Puerto Ricans from that time, because they say, “look at this one, look this one,” and we don’t speak, you know, the language is evolving. And these are, these are the children of the jíbaros who arrived first who speak like this and let me see what other word that I could, I captured many words, many words that they used in their vocabulary, that we do not speak like that, we do not speak. But if I hear it, it comes back to me, when I talked like that too, you understand me, it also comes out there you are jíbaro, you are jíbaro, you are jibaro, yes, but yes, being Puerto Rican for me is wonderful and knowing that we are like the springboard for many people who arrived in Puerto Rico and after they took everything away…they left, there are others who stayed that I think you know like Tony Croatto, Marilyn Pupo that everyone already knows she is Cuban, but she is, she has that thing inside, that pride, this who else, there are many artists like that, you know in Puerto Rico who have it, they are never going to leave Puerto Rico and if they leave Puerto Rico Rico they take that with them. I am like that, because my dream is always to return and stay, but unfortunately I don’t know how to drive like my entire family, but I would like to. I dream of returning, staying and as I tell my partner, I want not to be buried, I want to be cremated that they throw my ashes there, I have it in my will and everything, because if not, this spirit will return because they didn’t do what I asked. They didn’t do what I asked, that’s what I want, that’s what I would like, well yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s good. And now let’s talk about the clothing, when you participate in the Bomba, what types of accessories and clothing do you usually wear?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

The, look at the… are you talking about the boys or me or the girls or both?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No, you.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

What, what the directors are in charge of different things. She, the co-director, is the clothing, but she, she is very artistic, she is a painter, she likes painting and what she sees, she sees the images, I always say that she sees the image, she draws it with us dressed up and I sometimes, I say that it’s like a painting and the characters are moving, so she, everything you saw, was coordinated by her. She has no formal education in dancing or dress, she is from Ponce, she came here when she was 6 years old and she speaks Spanish like a gringa, but she has a very incredible vision, so she see that and dresses us, so we coordinated and we agreed, there was no, there was a performance that we dressed like African, with African print things and things like that, they were all her ideas, but mostly they are the guayaberas, guayaberas, coordinated guayaberas of different colors, representing how, when the director is talking and he is giving, we are doing a show, he narrates why we are dressed in a certain way and identifies the rhythms, where that rhythm came from, why we are dancing the way we are dancing, why we are dressed like this, so I already know, what you read, everything, now, now we are in, holding meetings to see if we can make a guayabera with, meet people who can make us clothes with African print with African designs. Because one of the things that I see a lot of Latinos here, they identify as Creole and they don’t want, they don’t want, they don’t want to leave that Creole, Creole, Creole thing. For me, I like to go to the roots, we are Creoles for sure, but we are going to go to the roots of everything, we don’t have to continue dancing with, for example, there are some who get like I told you to dance with the skirts of, the Africans did not dance with skirts, the Africans did not dance and with that clothing, they danced the way they danced. And I, I think I mentioned to you on the phone that sometimes I see the girls dancing like that, but I say, “but where is the skirt?” Because those are movements, so I look at it, I look at it carefully, but I say, how Bomba is evolving because many other cultures also want to exclude us because we are not black enough, but that is a lie, because if you, you go to Puerto Rico and our traditions and the black Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico, they are all, they are all… from the same tribe, most of them were, I have studied all those things, very when you see many of the Black Puerto Ricans, they were family, it was not like what happened here in the United States, which were tribes that were enemies with each other. On many of these islands, we were related, they were from the same people, from the same tribe or from the same state as I understand, except that there are some slaves who escaped from other islands and went to Puerto Rico because slavery, it was no, no, slavery no longer existed in Puerto Rico. So I see all those things like that, but we are trying to see if we can dress with more African clothing like that, African designs like that to look better, but her name is Magda, the co-director, she likes the colors and all that, blue or white, white, blue, red and all those things, or, and sometimes the hats or the kangol and things like that…different, different different things. I like everything because we look elegant, she always tells us, “no, no,” she, she always says, “no, I don’t want us to go up to th stage and look like the other groups who look like a disaster, we look,” one of the things that identify us, not only because we unite the community, but because we dress very elegant and well, very cool, well-coordinated, well-coordinated.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And where…do you make your own clothing or do you buy clothing, from where do you get the clothing?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

The, the, from different stores, but the women’s clothing is almost always a lady who designs them, designs them and sews them the way they want, because sometimes they want them in different styles. The same fabric, but different styles, because each, each, I have observed that in many of the costumes of each town is different, which identifies it from that town or from those people who taught them those branches of bomba, but this one can have that style, for example, there is one that has the style of, from Santurce, it is good or the other one has the style of Mayagüez, but it has the same colors and you can see it, it looks good, it, it looks well-coordinated and it is and, it is very interesting because within the African Nigerian community that I am in, when you are, we are dressing in the same fabric, but the designs are different, the fabric which indicates that we are a family, we are all united. I participated in a ceremony recently where we had the fabric that came to us from Africa, we had to buy it, I took it to a man there at the African fair here, an African fair, an African market, so he himself helped me design my clothes and made them for me, so we joined together at the party, we all had the same fabric, but it was, the design was different, the girls were different, everything, but it was the same fabric, so what it indicates is that we are a spiritual family, we are all united by that same fabric, do you notice?, and more or less like that I, I would say in Bomba it is more or less like that we…wearing the same clothing is what unites us and especially the color white, because the color white represents the color of the ancestors for many things, you are going to see that a lot. Many groups use white because it represents for us the family and spiritual unity of our ancestors, no matter what color they were and what country they were dragged from and brought to Puerto Rico.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And usually, you talked about the fabric, do you know what fabric it was made of?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Of, of, of us?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I don’t know if it was cotton, I know it was, it’s supposed to be a fabric that doesn’t scratch our skin, because some fabrics that are too, one starts, one starts… mine was very soft. Let’s see if I have it here, I’ll show you, wait.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

How nice!

Alberto Diaz Cruz

And, the pants and all that and, pants and all that, but when we all got together it was very nice to see us all with the same design and the same fabric, but it is a different design, sorry, it was really, really cool.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And do they usually look, like, like the one you have?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, yes, let’s see if we make guayaberas, what happens is that we have to coordinate once we used guayaberas of different colors African style, but it looked, it looked very pretty, so the hats, the African hats, so I have a lot, so I lent them to the group and we took, we took photos because it was for an African festival and we did incredible, we did incredible, it was also very good, we did incredible because that’s what they say, the Bomba is interactive. We’re not going to be up in the stage and just sing, no, you all have to come, so we’ll make a demo. She makes a demo, so sometimes they called me to make a demo for the boys, then we started bringing people out and what I do is that sometimes I’m looking and that one is very serious, there she is…and I tell her I do like this, you can’t reject me, you can’t reject me, so they come together and let me, let me tell you, after they come to dance, they don’t want to leave, they don’t want to leave, that’s good and that’s where a lot of healing begins, a lot of things that happened to them and then they see us again because they go to another festival and they are in the same crowd now they know more or less how to dance because they went to the academy because they have an academy too, they go to the academy, so what happened recently within the academy, I didn’t want to go, I didn’t want to participate in the academy there, they pay you well and all that, but I don’t care about the money, I don’t like it because you have to get up early, I live here in New York having to get up very early after traveling to catch two or three trains and then they are arriving, oh no, I want to sleep. So, what happened was they started an academy for girls and boys and the parents joined because they liked them, so they joined, then the last show we did not only the children of different ages come, they opened the show for us, we taught them. So, what we did, what they used was the clothes backwards, for example, black and white and we were white and black. So we introduced them first, the students did incredible, then later came the parents who joined the academy because they liked it so much that they themselves became students with their children and supported them and that was a very, very special thing, so we were, we introduced ourselves, we introduced them in the show, I think I sent you that photo, what, what did they do with him, like him, the doll, that one from Bad Bunny, did you see that one?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

And that was, that is, that boy and that girl were from another group, from another group, but it was a plenero from another city in New Jersey, very good, very good people too, because there were three stages, there were three stages and they were further away, another group here and us here.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

So cool.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

We went through, we had a great time, we had a great time, here, we are very united, thank God, and we meet a lot of people, and we meet a lot of special people, we meet a lot of writers that you don’t know about, and you’re like, “ah, that’s that one writer, oh my God,” they come to you, you know it’s our pride, the thing is that Bomba is ours and we need that here in a country like this, here in Puerto Rico, a country like this.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Of course. And of the different styles that you have told me about, do you have any that you identify with the most and that you use the most?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Of the, of the different towns?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

No about the guayabera that you wear or the dashiki, I think you also said that you wear sometimes.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

The dashikis don’t attract much attention to me, I like them because I find them, they are trendy, I find them very trendy, yes, sorry, I do like the guayaberas, sorry, the guayaberas that are very expensive because they are very elegant because they are well made, I love it, but I also like when we use African fabric to make our costumes and all that because it identifies us, it identifies us in a different way, but more or less everything, all the shows that we have done I think I have been with them for 10 or 13 years, all the clothes that we have worn with all the groups I have loved because when we look at each other we look good, very elegant, simple but very elegant and it draws attention and in, in comparison with other groups that we have, we have participated with other groups and we, as the co-director says, we were the best dressed, we were best dressed, because like her, she doesn’t allow us, “how are you going to get up on stage with that guayabera and you didn’t iron it?” She doesn’t let you how, how, “how are you going to get on stage with those tennis shoes? No, no, no, not that, I don’t accept it,” she said, “I don’t accept it, don’t come here with your tennis shoes.” Now if we have a show that is very casual, she says, “no, come with a white guayabera, jeans and tennis shoes,” then we are still coordinated, we look very elegant, very cool, so yeah.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And when, when you put on the clothes, what do you feel?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Pride, a representation, pride, tremendous pride and especially with the little hat, not the kangol the hat,what is it called, I forget the name, you know which one I’m telling you right?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, yes, the one in the pictures, I’m going to have to look it up later because I don’t know either.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

It is very elegant, it is very cool.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And when you move and dance, does that same feeling continue, always something different, with, with, with the clothes?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I feel…it’s something that moves me inside, something that moves me inside and fills me up a lot when I ask someone to dance, because sometimes I get, how do you say in English, I’ m self-conscious, I’m self-conscious, but then it goes away and I see the joy of a child when I go to bring out a person who starts to dance too. That fills me with joy, especially the old people and the children, when I’m going to bring them out because it’s like I say, that’s not for, no one can say applause to me because I don’t stay like that. On the contrary, on the contrary, I always either bring out a girl or we dance with the couples, with the girls in the group or I always, I always grab, I always grab, always, always, always. Then the co-director looks at me like this… it means she, she goes this way, I go the other way, we always grab someone and they start dancing, which fills me up a lot and fills me up a lot. So what I have observed is that it is how they explain to us about the Bomba, you are, through the dance you are narrating…

[Cut to 1:13:16]

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Okay, this is what I, I observed, I don’t know what, I don’t share it with everyone, not for anything bad, but because they don’t see what I see. I see sometimes that we take a person…For example, I have taken a person to dance and through their body they are telling a story of the steps they learned, but other times something is awakened in it, especially in women something has been awakened in their body that they begin telling a story that they themselves do not even realize, they are not conscious and that story is very sad. She has a trauma inside and by dancing Bomba is coming out of her and that’s when she starts to cry. The girl starts to cry. It has always happened, but then she will start, oh! She starts dancing with a fury that is incredible and I say, and I tell the co-director, “that girl has trauma or was traumatized, look at the dance, the dance has awakened her.” You notice then one, one, and I identify with that because imagine, I went out to dance because of this, this happened to me and I also listen to see the lyrics of the Bomba to see and sometimes the rhythm, the rhythm of the Bomba has awakened that, especially to the girls.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And do you think that what one has on, be it traditional clothing, performance clothing, something casual, do you think that affects how one feels when one is presenting, when one is participating in Bomba?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, in many cases for me, when you get, the, the clothing is like a transvestite… they dress up and get into that character, but after they take everything off you see how, I don’t know, you, do you remember Antonio Pantoja? Antonio, he was very famous, he was very famous, he was tremendous, he was very talented, he was, and he was a comedian too. He dressed in a certain way, but later, when he came out as a man, he was also an incredible talent, but the clothing kind of…invokes you something, like it’s a, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know how to explain it. It’s like you climb on the stage with your clothes on, now you get off, you took off your clothes and now you are another person, but you are not really another person, you are the same person. You notice, because when I get on, I enjoy it and when I’m getting off I enjoy it even more, when I get home, now, when I get on the train little by little I take off all my clothes, I put it in my backpack and I go on the train, but I still have, I still have that sense with me and I get home already dead tired and all that and mostly because of the train. Sometimes I stay there with my classmates, but I see the difference in myself and what dancing and all those things have done in my life because as a child I wanted to be a dancer, but you know at home being from a sexist culture, they made fun of me for all that, but who knew, who knew, because mommy never, mommy never scolded me for any of that because mothers know about their children. Mothers know mommy, mommy already knew, but as I have told mommy, one thing has nothing to do with the other. The fact that I like dances and musicals, that didn’t mean that I was going to be gay, that didn’t mean anything. But I see that, that, all that, it’s like a transformation, I tell you, it’s a transformation, it’s a formation. Like two beings that come together, that express themselves, but really it’s me, it’s me. Now also what many people tell me that when they see me there, not only am I serious, they tell me that I see a child who never had the joy of expressing himself and when they tell me, “you see that child that comes out of you is incredible,” and that same child that people bring out so they can celebrate that moment in their life. Sometimes when they tell me, it makes me, I would say, it makes me sad about what he couldn’t do, but at the same time it did happen, because here I am.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Exactly that’s it.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

It’s very deep.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, that’s beautiful… we know that there are different styles of Bomba from, from the region, that is, different styles of clothing and you mentioned it too, that there are different elements, there are also people who get their clothing from a seamstress, others from a store, now Walmart sells Bomba clothing.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

There? Really? Oh my god! Not here, not here, oh my god.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Well here yes, I didn’t know, but they told me and it was during one of these interviews because I, I always ask if you believe, do you believe that there are some styles of bomba clothing that are more authentic than others?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Absolutely sure, yes, that can be seen, that can be seen. The person who knows, knows, and those who, and those who don’t know, don’t know. That should not be, no, it should not be criticized, because they really do not know, but they do not teach them that is not authentic, that is not, that, that is not ours, that is not Bomba because look, I heard a story that said that the black Africans or the Puerto Rican black women when they were dancing the reason why they raised their skirts is because they saw the Spanish women like that when they were going to walk through the potholes like that, so they began to imitate them to make fun of them, then they pick up that dress, but it was to make fun of her, but I don’t know if it’s true. It’s like a mockery, but at the same time it makes sense. As the slave is going to make fun of the Spanish woman, of course, she is surely going to make fun of her, she is a slave, and she feels trapped, well, things like that I, I have heard, let me see what else I have heard. What I am very aware of is that I don’t like that sometimes, you are, you, you dress in a way, is a Black face. You know what I am saying? It is a Black Face. You are dressed like this and sometimes it has even been a black person of color that you are representing as a stereotype that to me, that is what I see and I find it very unpleasant, but at the same time I know that they don’t know, they don’t know, this Melanie, Melanie, I was at a presentation workshop there in California for, for two weeks, she presented her, her data and things like that, and comments and photos and one of the things that I remember one of the Puerto Rican women said, “Oh no, but I have to dress like this, I have to put on red lipstick so I can look blacker with bigs lips.” That is a stereotype and a very negative representation of what a person of color or a mixed person is. You notice, then I see that too, sometimes they present and sometimes I hear a rhythm and that seems like the little dolls that they used to teach with the Africans who took the white man, put him in a pot and cooked him to eat him, that’s a stereotype and I I see those things, I don’t, no, these people don’t know, they don’t know especially, I don’t know if you grew up in a time when other comedians were seen with painted faces, that’s an insult, that’s a very horrible thing and it was seen and I don’t know if you remember Carmen Belén Richardson, a very famous comedian actress in Puerto Rico, she did, she protested all those things, because how are you going to, how are you going to… allow leading men and other actors and actresses to paint themselves black to play a black role when there are many actors and actresses from Puerto Rico who were black, well why don’t they hire them? So she protested and was an activist in that way with other people in Puerto Rico, her name is Carmen Belén Richardson. That was good, she was good, very funny, but she was tremendous. She was tremendous in what she was, she did not accept that in our culture.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, and just to confirm when you say that, right to understand and be on the same page, when you say that when they put on the dress and it’s like a black face, that’s when they put on what we know as, what was worn before, the white skirt, the scarf, is that what you are referring to?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, when you look at them, when you, well, when I have looked at them carefully, there is one that looks good, that tries to, to duplicate what was authentic. There is another one that I, I don’t know if they don’t study it well or they don’t look at how you dress in the mirror when, that’s a stereotype, you see, I don’t like it, you see, I find it very distasteful, I see it and I say, “oh my God, please, my God, someone should tell this girl not to dress that way,” because it’s like, it’s a stereotype, it’s a Black face , that’s what it is, is a Black face. It’s a Black face in clothing. You notice it’s like a, it’s like a mockery and the person doesn’t know that it’s like a mockery and it’s a form of racism too, no, no, they don’t see that. Now I always try to see the positive things from mistakes, you learn many things and you evolve and that is good, especially if you have dialogue. You know the conversation and saying, let’s go this and this and this and this because we have those kinds of conversations with ourselves, in our group and with other people here who know about history, they have recordings of Bomba from the years that are here, there are universities that have recordings of us. They know about all those things, they know details, things like that and they say that wasn’t like that, black people in Puerto Rico didn’t dress like that at all, on the contrary, it looks the opposite, so yeah.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Do your experiences with the Bomba clothing that you have shared affect how you feel about your Puerto Rican identity?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

It enhances it…it enhances it yes. You know what I don’t, I do not like it, when, when they dress up, with the Puerto Rican flag. I find it a little ridiculous.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

The clothing with the, with the, with the flag?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

They make a dress or they make a suit so it’s the Puerto Rican flag, you see, I find it, I don’t like it. Personally, I don’t like it and the majority with the flag, the Puerto Rican flag, I don’t like it, I still haven’t seen a boy with a guayabera with, with the Puerto Rican flag, maybe it looks different, but put on, just as they do here at the Puerto Rican parade. I find it horrible, I find it horrible.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

But is it because… because of aesthetics, for meaning?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

For everything, for the aesthetics, for the meaning, for example, there is a singer, I’m not going to tell you the name, but you are going to know who she is, that she went to the parade and dressed like an Indian American, she was supposed to be representing the Tainos, the Taino Nation, but you are going to dress like an American Indian, because they called you that since you were little. And that, I said, not me, it’s ridiculous because why don’t you do a little study to see and represent, represent yourself and represent us as we really were, not like that and you see that a lot, they put on the feathers, the feathers used by many Indians, you see many look like that…educate yourself, that’s what the teacher told me and told us, “educate yourself, educate yourselves.” I educate myself because I like to do a lot of studies and read and things like that, compare things, but for me the one about the flag… but that is a matter of one’s taste, whatever, same whatever… To this day, none of us who have dressed with the group, on the contrary, have felt proud, whether we are Puerto Rican or not, we were representing, we did it with elegance, simple, with elegance, but no rudeness or anything of that, nothing, on the contrary, very elegant, always, always very elegant and with a lot of pride, so.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Do you think your other and different identities affect how you feel in relation to Bomba or Bomba’s clothing?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Not really, on the contrary. I try to integrate everything, because for me, everything as for me, as if everything fits together more or less for me, like my mind, how I see things, I try to unite or integrate it and as a teacher that is what I do, you know, I have always said, lets integrate everything because I said when in Puerto Rico, we were in elementary school there they give you music in one class, literature in another class, Spanish in another class and here it’s not like that, in elementary school here, the teacher has to give everything and, and they really don’t know how to integrate it because they don’t have enough time to integrate all those things, so what I asked the principal of our school, who ironically was Puerto Rican from New Jersey, but her parents came, they lived, they came here, they never learned English, they lived in what is called here in project hamlets, but they never moved and they sent all their children to study, they became professionals, so she brought all those things to our school and she was very proud as a Puerto Rican and she was an activist, she was an activist, so we knew how to integrate all those things, so I would ask her, I can do it this way, because I grew up in Puerto Rico like that, like that, like that and she tells me, she tells me, “sure, why not?” She told me, “why not? integrate, you know all the subject,” she tells me, “integrate it, integrate it,” but I concentrated on everything, integrating everything because they are all requirements that the city and state exams take here, I knew everything comprehensively, thanks to my experience and the teachers I had in Puerto Rico, but here I am in middle school, yes you have different courses, but in elementary school, there is not enough, there is not enough time for you to teach things with, with love and with concentration, you know, I did it, I did it, I did what I could do, but I also did it with other teachers because all the, all the teachers in our school, we were specialists in something and she treated us like human beings, she was very, very cool. She would tell you, “look, Ms. Pellot, I’m going to send you to another state, because there they want you to represent our school,” and you, and you would say, “me?” “Yes, you can because you are very good, you are a, you’re a master,” then she chose you and you went with another partner, she did that with, she didn’t cheat, but she chose us in different ways and sometimes, we were representing with other schools, with other principals, with other administrators from other countries. I had a good, very good experience, but it was because she was an activist, that is, she was an activist at a time when no, no, they didn’t want us here, a group of people, because there is another Bomba group in New Jersey and he, the director is a lawyer and was our defender as well. A tremendous Puerto Rican lawyer, because his name, Juan Cartagena, was tremendous, he defended us, but he was an activist. So you, you are an activist and you are a lawyer, you know what you are talking about, very professional and all that. So they were, they were friends, they are friends, because they all know each other, all those activists, bohemians, poets, writers, singers, they all met, they were all, they were all in the same thing, like in the time of Puerto Rico, in the 50s, all those people in Mexico, they were all united, they were all in the same thing, I know many things about that time because I love it, that you ask me, I can tell you yes, they knew each other, This one knew each other, this one knew each other, these guys hung out together, yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s awesome. And with your interactions with, with, with the people when you are dancing Bomba, that you have already shared that you take people dancing. What kind of information have you learned about how they think about Bomba, about Bomba clothing, through those interactions?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

I, what I have always seen, thank God, almost everything has been positive for everyone and it is like, and not only with us Puerto Ricans, especially in New Jersey, it is like a hunger, like a thirst to connect with their, connect with their roots, whether we are Puerto Rican, whether from Nicaragua, whether from Colombia, so, whenever we have participated, pride comes out, then they get interest in returning to their roots because some have grown up here, they know Spanish, but they don’t know their history or their trajectory of how their parents got here, so there is something of, of us, of Bomba that unites them. So, we, we always meet again, we always get involved and now this one is in a group, now this one is taking barrel classes, now this one is taking Bomba classes, do you understand? So we all came together and it was, that’s how it started here, stepping stone, it started here, now look where are they. Then we met, “oh, I remember you when you were little and now that boy is a master at playing the barrel and with the clothes and everything, do you understand? So here what I see is like a hunger and consideration, a thirst that unites us and that is, that fills us, you understand, it is an inspiration because we, like, as the director says, we are filled with the fact that you are celebrating, we are not here so that you can see us singing and playing and none of that…and if not and if that’s not the case, then we’ll go…but almost always, I would say, most of the times we have…wow, wow it was great, it was great. And, and meet again, you know, with that same person in different parts of New Jersey, because New Jersey is big, but everyone already has a car, so when they hear a, a, a show or a presentation they go away over there and no, I don’t know, then sometimes they hide to surprise us, “what are you doing here?”, “well, the same thing you are doing here, I came to see you.” And I know, look and they bring, they bring a small group of people from their neighborhood. That’s the other thing they do, they bring a little group in their car, here, that’s good, they are also always little boys, little boys and that’s good, because then they do spread and preserve the traditions, things like that. I have a lot of experiences, I tell you, I can write several books.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Oh, what, that’s good, that’s good. And does your participation in Bomba and your use of clothing affect your daily style, that is, what you wear on a daily basis?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, no, on the contrary. On the contrary, I sometimes wear my guayabera because I have many. I have, I have one that, that, I have one that when we walked at the parade with another Bomba group here, these are the pleneros, the pleneros, who are very good, I also started with them, they are very good, they wanted us to participate in the parade, with a guayabera from Don Q from Ponce, so after we participated, the girl from, who represented Don Q here in New York, wanted me to return it, wanted us to return the guayabera when at first she told us that it was a gift for everyone, they paid us well, but that’s not it, it wasn’t because, we didn’t do it because they paid us well, they paid us well, but they told us that they were going to pay us and they were going to give us clothing, especially the men, because in the back it says Don Q. So, later when we finished, we finished where we paraded, there is a place that we had to, that was where we finished, but the parade continues, so she asked us for the guayaberas and I was like yes, yes, mhmm…

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

You were like, yes I’ll give it to you in a minute.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

So, you already know what I did, right? Mhm, I walked around central park here in New York and said, “I’ll be back, I’m going to get some water,” and I took my guayabera, I took it with me. And, I also said it’s from Ponce, it’s from Ponce, from Ponce…she didn’t even realize it nor did the group realize it, but then I told the one who hired us all, she, she knew… “Alberto, you enjoyed it, you enjoyed it,” I told her, “I sure did, do you want to see it?” She said, “no, because I believe it,” and I’m going to take a photo of it, I’m going to send it to you, and I sent her a photo. No she, she, she told me, “but well done because look, she told us that it was going to be a gift, and now no, you have or give it back”… I still have it, I still have it, I assure you that yeah.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Of course, “you were in the right” by keeping that shirt. Ok, well now I’m going to show you the photos that you sent me, and tell me about them, when it was taken, a little bit of, context, starting with this one here.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

That’s what I was going to tell you to show them to me. Okay, on that one, have you heard about Bomplenazo? The Bomplenazo? Okay every, every, here the Hostos school does a Bomplenazo every 4 years. I don’t think they have done it in a while because the pandemic came and took away many things from us, you understand, so, at the Bomplenazo, groups from Puerto Rico, from California, from Florida, Connecticut, Philadelphia, from different states and even from different countries perform. So they present, it’s like a week of different activities, so that was I think it was the first year or the second, I had presented with another group, but now it was our turn, our group, so that was the show that I, I participated in two with our group and that was one of the shows. So that was the first time that the co-director was there, we were rehearsing and rehearsing because we wanted to perform and there were even whimpers and tears and all because I told her don’t change, we are going to follow the routine, it was routine and improvised. So, she later apologized, no, you know she apologized to all of us, because she was very abrupt, but her, her, agenda was that we represented and we represented it very well, so in, in that photo I took her out to dance and we did amazing and when it wasn’t, when the show was over, I came down to everyone, “y’all went all out, all out, all out,” but imagine so many groups, so many groups and so many activities and so many tightness, because behind the scenes there were conflicts and gossip like that. We don’t get involved in any of that, so that was the first, one of the first Bmplenazos that I participated in… actively and I went all out, I was very, I felt very proud, I heard them say to me, “Alberto!” And my partner took a, he took a video that I didn’t want, I didn’t want to see it for a long time. He tells me, “come on, you should see yourself, come on.” (See Figure 1)

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

But why?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Because, I didn’t feel prepared to look in the mirror and see how good I looked dancing and all that, but now I see the photos and I love them and the video because he has, my, my friend has the video, my friend has the video.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And everything was, right, it seems like everyone is coordinating with black, red or white. When you coordinate these colors, do you think about where you are going to go, what you are going to celebrate or is it like, well this looks good, let’s go with that?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, I would have to ask the director what, what, what she has in her mind, because sometimes I see her making drawings. She makes drawings and from there she gets inspiration and sometimes she gets inspiration and then she makes the drawing. And I say, but look, supposedly she doesn’t have that formal training and everything, but she has some incredible ideas and some things are like, like, like I told you the word, has a special “ashe”, it has a special energy to put together all those things very, it’s very, very… she speaks and, she speaks Spanish that seems, it seems like an American, but everything from Puerto Rico, because when we go to rehearse we go to their house, right, sometimes we go to a studio, if it is going to be a very big show, but we go to her house, we rehearse there and she, while we are rehearsing, we take a break, she starts cooking all our meals with pots like this so you can imagine, after the rehearsal or two or 3 rehearsals are over, because sometimes we have new songs, she begins to serve, you know. The best, the best no, no…the hostest of the mostest, and there she does everything. One, one, one thing, I have realized that they did not know what guanimo was, there are people who say guanime or do not know what pastelón was or, there is Puerto Rican food that are, although Puerto Rico is small, they are of a particular town and it did not return, it did not travel to the United States unless it was traveling with that group of, from that town. So I say, “but I make this and, and gazpacho cari, gazpacho criollo, you know what gazpacho criollo is with avocado and cod, they didn’t know what that was, so I said ok, well I prepared one for them and I took it to them. And since they liked cod, but they had never, they had never eaten that, never at all and the gazpacho that they knew is the Spanish gazpacho, which is the, the liquid one. No, that is ours, that is ours, so the other thing that I did was also the mojito, they didn’t know what a mojito was other than the drink, the mojito is garlic with all those things, I did that too. ..but I didn’t learn those things in Puerto Rico, I learned them at home with mom, with my family, when I was in Puerto Rico, I already knew those things, food and guanimos, wheat flour and corn, things like that. So, it’s a nice exchange, because we’re, we’re reconnecting with our roots, with food too, not just with clothing, with food too.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, that’s how it is. Here I have the other photo.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Ok, that was with another group that I started that we did, that we also did a show and I liked that one, I liked it, I don’t know why. One of the first, it was one of the first shows, that was in, I don’t know if it was 2005, 2000, it was many years ago. It was with a group called Segunda Quimbamba, it’s from the lawyer that I told you, he and his wife, Juan, Juan Cartagena was with that group because that group here what they do, I don’t know how they do it in Puerto Rico, but what they do here is like a semester, and many students of all levels come and they teach everything, then later, at the end of that semester, they do a show for those students to present what they learned. So then, the next semester they come back, like tonight they invited me to one, but I didn’t want to go, I wanted to rest, it ended two weeks ago, that semester ended and now for the summer semester it started, it started again, but I didn’t want to go today because it’s on the other side of the Bronx. I didn’t want to, I wanted to stay home, so they do the same thing. You do a semester, you learn the language, you learn the rhythms, you learn the dances, you learn the choir, then later you do a show, you perform in a show, then what they do, what they do in a show is that they, they, those of us who participate don’t get pay, but there is still a charge because then with that same money, funds are raised to save, to buy clothing for the students and things like that. A collective community thing that is good, so sometimes it is 5 dollars or 10 dollars or things like that, but everything is for ourselves. Now they are going to do fundraisers, those are fundraisers, here they do a lot, they do a lot of that and they recycle the money and all those things which is good. (See Figure 2)

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

So cool.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

So, you see, I like to see the parents because the parents are looking at their children like that, “ah” with a lot of pride and all that, that’s very good. Instead of taking them to “ballet school” they go to Bomba class, to our thing.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Awesome, and here we have the last one. If you can see it well there.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Oh…that was one of the last ones, yeah.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And what do you have…

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No sorry, tell me, tell me.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

I was going to ask what, does this shirt have a name?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

That’s African.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

That’s…that’s a shirt that’s called traditional.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Okay.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Traditional African. I bought that one especially for myself, so the director told me, “oh, put that on, put that on,” but I, “but tonight I’m not going to dance,” “yes, you’re going to dance, because that shirt is so cute.” (See Figure 3) So, well there I would say that it was more improvisation, because sometimes she tells me, “you are going to,” this is what she does, “you are going to dance this number, you are going to dance this number, you are going to dance this one, you are going to dance this one, you are going to dance this one with me,” but what happens lately is that I am supposed to dance a number, and she chooses me for another one and I think she already does it jokingly, so in that one, I wasn’t supposed to dance that number, but she told me, “Albert…”

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Get in…

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Yes, I felt it, I really felt it, I loved it, I loved it a lot, yep.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Where did you get the shirt?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

In a, in a center, here there are, here there are many African markets and you have to haggle with them because what they do is look at your eyes and if they see that you like that one, the price goes up. But for me, yes, yes, but since I already know them I say, “no, I’ll buy you two and you’ll get two of this,” and I have a seamstress now who is making me, who made me these clothes and who made me, he is making other clothes, also another hat. You notice, then that was in, in an African store that I chose, ah I like that one, that’s where I bought it, and the man brings all those things and the girl who owns the store brings all those things, there is everything there, there is everything that those who want to go there and they make your clothes too, if you want them to be made according to the, the fabric that you choose, because you have “stacks” of many different fabrics. What I do sometimes I look at myself to see if it looks good with the color of my skin, because I am very, as I used to say in Puerto Rico, pale [inaudible] and sometimes, sometimes not all colors, I think they match with my skin color, I don’t want to do a Black Face…never, ever, well yes, I still have that one, I still have that one, I have all of them. So I have them all.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Do you keep them?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Sure, I take it to the “cleaner,” because sometimes we’re going to use that same one or we’re going to do that show, so I already have the list ready and I also have the African ones, yep.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Perfect, well that was the interview, those were my questions, thank you very much for answering and for sharing. Before finishing this, would you like to share anything else?

Alberto Diaz Cruz

No, I don’t think so, no, I’m not going to appear on video, right? right? In your studio, I’m not going to appear on video or not?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, that’s the point of this recording.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Good for the future as for the future.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Listen, I have learned a lot and I know that in the future, when this project is completed, many more will learn from you and will be inspired by your story. So thanks for sharing.

Alberto Diaz Cruz

Of course, here I am at your service.