Jesus Cepeda Brenes English Transcription

Amanda Ortíz-Pellot

Today is February 5, 2023. I will be here interviewing—

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

24.

Amanda Ortíz-Pellot

That’s right. It’s 2024. Sorry. We are in 2024. I will be here interviewing the great Jesús Cepeda Brenes. Thank you for being here and for your availability. I am interviewing you for my research titled “Puerto Rican Bomba Fashions: Consumption, Performance, and Meaning Making.” Okay, so let’s begin. Tell me a little about yourself, your family, and your history.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

I was born a son to Mr. Rafael and Mrs. Caridad. Rafael Cepeda Atiles and Mrs. Caridad Brenes in 1950. I am their eighth child. We were all born in Parada 23, in the Melillas neighborhood in San Mateo de Cangrejos, in Santurce. We grew up under the protection of these two individuals who came from cultural families. On dad’s side, the Cepeda family, and on Mrs. Caridad’s side, the Brenes family. She is from Humacao, and dad is from Puerta de Tierra. He came to Cangrejos. His grandparents and parents were also Bomberos and Bomberas. This has been passed down from family to family. It’s our turn now, our time, to be part of that legacy. We vibrated with it and learned everything as children because our family always did activities. We always played Bomba, Plena, drums, and had festivities of Cruz. Many people were there; many of us were a part of it. It was the same with the Bomberos; everybody was a Bombero. We were present in all traditional festivities. One way or the other, we were always involved in cultural events, meeting new people and learning. This learning never ends. We would share it. We talk more, we were all educated through this; they educated all their children like this. We would learn all kinds of things. Our father made sure to teach us everything about Bomba: the dances, the drums, the singing, the dances, the songs, the drumsticks, and the instruments. In the end, we were all inclined toward singing. If you danced and sang a little, you always [inaudible] those of us who played. We were involved in everything but always looked for an instrument. Those were the roles in the family. Whenever we had things to do, daddy understood we needed to get organized as part of the group, the children and his Bombero friends, too, the Bomberos and the elderly. He would be with us to do small things, like little workshops. He would explain because people didn’t know, this is what he ends up working with and their friends. By the 1940s, he had a Plena group, which then continued. Then, in the 1950s, we started Grupo El Trapiche, his first folklore group. The family was more or less growing by then; it was growing. We also shared stages with theater groups. That’s when Francisco Arriví’s great play took place in 1958. It was the family, and dad was one of the first to do that play. The old man and my older siblings participated, and Bomberos of the caliber of Andrés Caliber also participated with him in the theater. Something like that. There were things to do. He often introduced himself as Rafael Cepeda and his Bomberos or Rafael Cepeda and the Bomba Knights. Little by little that started paying off, and his image grew. Participating in the carnivals was important, as well as participating in school activities. One of the things that helped us greatly there– Well, not greatly, a lot. It was very special. It happened when Rafael Cortijo and his mix, in 1953-1954, became official with Ismael Rivera. Their vision was that if they would make music, they would do Bomba and Plena as their foundation. That group broke all music, radio, and television parameters. It started with television. They ventured in because the group was too good and represented the interests of Bomba and Plena, both in Puerto Rico and New York. They made it international and took Latin America, Panama, Colombia, and Venezuela. That made it important, even though they played with a timba, which wasn’t a national instrument. After all, it wasn’t a Bomba band; it was an orchestra. They used the timba, and they did it very well. People were mostly interested in what they represented. That also opens up other possibilities for getting closer to Bomba. People began getting more interested in what was happening. Within that, we cannot miss, and I have been analyzing this for a while, all these people. In Puerto Rico, we need to highlight San Mateo, a population made up of blacks, founded by blacks, in 1773. It had a church and everything, including offices. It didn’t become a municipality, which was– San Juan would have been called San Mateo.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

San Mateo.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

All those big neighborhoods: Puerta de Tierra, Loíza, Trujillo Alto, and Trujillo Bajo. The part I’m talking about is near the airport, Isla Verde. San Mateo includes all that, and all of Rio Piedras. It was organized. The population there was free because they were artisans, the ones building San Juan. Those people would build the entire country. Those blacks were free. There were all kinds of people, including bakers and women, the ones in charge of designing costumes for the masters, the important people. These were artisan women who made the designs and the costumes of all these masters and their households, not for their masters, because they were free. They were committed to working in the country to make it official. This is why, we were under the Spanish flag. There were many other female designers. From what dad says and tells, in the haciendas in Mayagüez, the Ponce hacienda– There were haciendas in San Juan. They would change places or throw parties and play Bomba. I know that in Mayagüez, there was a Bomba dance. He talks about it in his album. In Mayagüez, they gave it the right importance. That’s when Bomba reached high-society halls for the first time. A high-society dance with designers. Their costumes followed the Spanish trend. With those who designed them being Bomberas, they knew they were in wide attire to be able to move freely. That wasn’t ours that much. After all, the youth is young. They are more aggressive these days, but back then, they used to be a little more reserved. Bomba was a little slower back then. The costumes weren’t so violent. Instead, they were pretty and concordant with their age and setting. After all, a young person will always be young and aggressive. They had a nice way of [inaudible], as they said. The dance was beautiful, especially as we danced it from above. It was like art. Usually, whenever something happened in the neighborhood, you started with whatever you had because often– Now, when the dances had been planned, and people were like, “Look, on this day, this Sunday, I will host a dance in my house.” In those cases, you would plan because people weren’t so rich. Instead, people would make plans ahead of time and wear something normal. Bomba, as well as Plena, was a cultural affair that took place all year round and took some time because it takes a while. We are now in la octavita, I think it’s turning into a novenita. If they let us, we will make it last all Christmas long, maybe even longer. San Sebastián ends two weeks after January; they are trying to make it last all month. I know that will end up happening because we like to party. If you leave the business, as is the case now with San Sebastián, I think so. The artisans’ party takes place all the way up to Plaza de las Américas before the San Sebastián Street Festival. The party will start a few weeks earlier there. People go there, play music, Plena, and all kinds of music on the spot. People have no issues finding parking space there. They have no problems, so it’s very cool, and it’s like a pre-party there before and after the San Sebastián Street Festival, which is explosive, and other activities coming up soon. Back then, they would wear white pants and clothes. In the neighborhoods, women started wearing skirts with petticoats. After all, the dresses are part of the beauty of Bomba, the ribbons in many different colors. There were ribbons of many colors when skirts were white. A woman’s reputation depended on it. Some women wore three or four skirts. They would dance for a little while, and for the next dance, they would change into a different skirt with different ribbons. Their reputation depended on the moment when they lifted their skirts. Women were really good at that.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

It was their thing.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Men worried more about dancing. That was very important, and it was part of the, as I say, it was the instrument, the wireless connection, the drum, and everything else that stemmed from there. I believe the drum has been the instrument and vehicle to reach people. They do it on the computer these days, but part of us started or was going to start from the drum downwards, upwards, the oldest means of communication humanity has. In this sense, we are talking about it telling a story. Bomba is history, and so is Plena, but Plena is Bomba’s daughter. After all, when the history of Bomba had already started as well as the tradition of passing it from family to family, which we still do to this day– We convey the tradition we learned from our parents and grandparents in our times, in this century. We are doing it in this century to ensure young people, as well as old people, keep doing it. After all, it is all a community affair. Grandfathers, fathers, mothers, children, grandchildren, friends, and family. We are all family, and we have the latest drum, plus this, plus that, the message, something. The community reunites again to make music with meaning.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Let me ask you. You said your family has been an integral part of the Bomba movement, which wasn’t heard much on stage. How was that transition? Why put Bomba on stage?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

The thing is, the stage was always the main thing. It was important for international artists. It was important for Latin American artists and American artists coming to Puerto Rico, so Bomba could not be important? Everyone had to get to the stage to prove that– When Bomba made it to the stage and was accepted, we opened the door. We broke the door. In the past, other things were cool, like theater, but my dad’s pride depended on seeing it up there, where everybody was, where they would–We couldn’t keep hiding. Where were we headed? We wanted it to be well-known and had to get it up there. Indeed, we had to fight, and it wasn’t that easy. There was racism and other things involved. However, in the 1950s, all these people –Cortijo, La Panamericana, and certain orchestras– made a huge effort, and there was a boom. It was as if everyone was on the same wavelength, and everything exploded. Reaching the stage and proving, “This is our thing. This is Bomba,” was legit. People backed it up, and when they legitimized it– Not the musicians because they had been fighting for it. I am talking about the people, the people liked seeing a show. It had to be beautiful and neat, and we had to wear our best attires. It needed direction. It wasn’t about climbing up there to play senselessly. We needed to show we had a meaning and experience. My old man had participated in many plays. I told you about Francisco Arriví’s play, didn’t I? He knew there needed to be direction and organization; it wasn’t just about climbing on the stage. It was about climbing on it, mastering it, and conveying the message as politicians did, those who visited neighborhoods and stood in front of people. They had witnessed political meetings where politicians talked to people. Dad used all these things somehow; he was very creative in organizing the group to work on a big stage. A big stage makes you legit. Just in case, in those days, they basically worked for free, so they needed to be at least considered. We didn’t get paid to get on stage before. We had to do it for free. We had to wait for the best opportunity and manage to convince the producer working in the show to give us an opportunity. After all, those who know you see some black people getting up the stage, talking about Bomba, where nobody is interested in knowing what that is, isn’t something that–My old man struggled with that work until we managed to get people to start liking it at that level. People would criticize something that would later put them on stage. They knew they wouldn’t go anywhere unless they followed that current. Now, those who criticized the stage and questioned it– Yes, we needed to carry the message. After the stage, we needed to take it abroad. We had to make it strong outside the country and make sure people liked it. We wanted to make an exchange. We might have had to do the same and fight. In the end, we managed to get it recognized. We wanted newspapers to do– There were issues. There were often issues and situations in the United States and Puerto Rico involving racism. Therefore, it was also part of the protest. All these things started giving us opportunities. The Cepeda family and Mr. Rafael Cepeda were deeply involved. Mr. Rafael Cepeda was lucky to have Ismael Rivera record El bombón de Elena, a song that played internationally and gave him other opportunities. So many things gave him the opportunity or the [inaudible] to say, “These people are important. This is the songwriter of El bombón de Elena and other songs. We will record here.” We rehearsed and prepared ourselves in our family; it wasn’t easy. We envisioned having Bomba recognized at that level, like Canario was recognized with Plena many years before, with his albums. We recorded our first Bomba album after 1970. We did it in a didactic way. In fact, not even the Culture Institute wanted to support it because in dad’s first album, dad explained Puerto Rican Bomba as we know it today. “It was born [inaudible] and sugar plantations, in a popular responses to the high autocracy’s music and through these rhythms, communicated joy, suffering, and our daily lives. A Bomba song said, güi parapa papa.” Right? They weren’t used to that, [inaudible] We can do it. We said, “if they don’t do it, we will do it.” The album was didactic, giving information about what had been done. Since the album was cultural, we were among the, the album was cultural because it contained spoken and written history. It wasn’t just music that didn’t tell you anything. Sometimes, you hear music, but it doesn’t tell you anything. It has no explanation. We were the first ones to include in an album– In El Patriarca, we explained all the rhythms and dances. So, we were right. There will always be somebody who will be sacrificed to then become famous. Check that out. We didn’t have a problem with that. Somebody always needs to do the work for others to enjoy the sacrifice. That’s the life, but you are the one who needs to believe in it, and if you are part of that, and you can talk about how it was from your heart– Because we were a part of it, so, it’s all a matter of being Puerto Rican. We tested it and took it to the stage. Now everybody is on stage and respects Bomba. [inaudible] and through the youth and the mechanisms of these times, like computers and all those cybernetic things, it has reached them faster. Young people are asking for more.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

I hear you. You were telling me about your family’s work on stage. I reflected on something you said. “Somebody will always enjoy somebody else’s sacrifice.”

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Sure.

Male Speaker

Amanda, I don’t see that it’s recording. Just in case you need to enable the recording feature.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

It says it’s recording here.

Male Speaker

Okay.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes. Thank you anyway. Another thing you said was that part of getting organized on stage involved looking good and well-prepared. Can you tell me a little about how your costumes played a role in making Bomba look good?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Sure. Look. Remember that you first need to situate yourself in time and space. We are talking about the 1940s and the 1950s when it was very hard in Puerto Rico. A social and political change was on the horizon, a big movement. Besides, there were issues with the wealthy, the middle class, and the poor. Poor people were going through– They faced all the difficulties: little food, some problems, and little work. The wealthy and politicians controlled that. The aim was to strike them with those things. Things only work when they give you the opportunity. You have to be brave; you must confront the system to sneak in and find a way. You have to be very well-prepared because we aren’t talking about being wealthy. We are poor. We have to work and fight to accomplish things, and family is everything to us. In the past, people nationwide would treat you like family. All your friends and neighbors were family. Now there’s somewhat of a– The system. There was unity in neighborhoods, where everybody knew and appreciated each other. They stayed united because it was the only way to survive. If I had enough today but not tomorrow, you would share with me. He would give me coffee, and he would give me this. We always worked as a community and supported each other. You need to be fortunate enough to have people who support you, hold your hand, and help you put together, work toward, rehearse, prepare, and organize something called music. Dad, we always played Plena in our house. When Christmas was coming, dad would throw a party for many good people, people he liked. They’d always call him for any activity: a quinceañera, a birthday– Dad would go with his tambourines and bring joy. Those people became his and the family’s fans. If there was a birthday but no money, “Okay, but the Cepeda family can come. Call them.” “Okay, we are coming over.” We’d go there and, “Bin ba ca bin bin bin.” Dad would sing to them. Especially on Christmas when everything was more beautiful. On Christmas, it was about throwing a party for our neighbors and good people. All those people helped us make it. We had mom. She was a woman with knowledge, and people loved her very much. My older sisters also got along with people. Whenever we could do an activity and needed to be well-dressed, people would help us. My aunt Isabel, also a designer, worked on our first attires and helped. She raised funds for these things. It’s not as easy as people want to make it seem. We didn’t have a car either. It wasn’t a matter of getting in a car and going somewhere. No. We had to go on foot. Everybody had to walk to get somewhere. It didn’t matter how far it was. We had to carry all that metal to bring it with us. We would do it, and the neighbors would help us because they believed in what we were doing. We didn’t find opportunities easily, but we got them. We would ride the bus sometimes, the AMA, which–

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

The public one.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

They would let us do it. Don Rafael was so beloved and well-known by then that often on Christmas, we would get on the bus, and they’d open the back door for us. We’d get it and throw parties inside. The passengers knew my old man for that. He used his wit in a way, believing in what he did. He knew he had to make sacrifices. While others drank and wasted time, he raised a family with culture no matter what it took. And he succeeded. He succeeded. There is respect. That’s why I’m telling you. The important thing is that somebody will always make sacrifices for others to benefit. Others don’t do anything. They have the capital but only take four classes and get together. They put a band together, which doesn’t bother me. I don’t have a problem with that. The important thing is that it was made possible for them, and we are proud of that. We respect them. I’ve always said that the stage is some sort of vindication, where you have an idea, and you put it up there to present to everybody. If there are cameras as there are now, broadcasting to 20,000 countries, the better. You need to be very well-prepared. You need to be cleanly shaved and know how to show yourself because you will be representing Puerto Rico. We are Puerto Rican, and whenever we get up there, we do it to represent Puerto Rico and its culture. We do it very proudly, respectfully, and knowledgeably. We know what we do. We offer people a cultural journey of many years into the present. Everyone needs to have a role, a priority, and respect for what we do. That’s the important thing because it’s something you do from your soul. When I get on the drums, I give myself fully, and my people there do the same; nobody is left out. This is a matter of fellowship. When we get up there, everybody knows it will be the best thing ever to give us an opportunity. We still keep opening doors. No other way of showing yourself has been known other than the stage. The biggest bands –El Gran Combo and La Sonora Ponceña– are on the stage, so why not us? Why are we different? Why don’t we deserve it, or why doesn’t Bomba or Plena deserve it? Why doesn’t mountain music deserve it? Doesn’t it deserve to appear on stage? Why not? It’s just as worthy to me. Now, the fact some are easier or slower has nothing to do with it. Still, there we are, and we managed to make it happen. We got the opportunity, and not just us but everybody coming after us.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, for all the new generations.

Male Speaker

Amanda, did you have the opportunity to see the video of this year’s SanSe? The Cepeda Family participated in it.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, I saw a little of it.

Male Speaker

You can see there how the costumes are representative.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes. I saw it. There are different colors. I was going to ask you about that, too. What is the importance behind the costumes? There are many changes now. In the video, as you mentioned, there are many colors, but it used to be white before. You said it.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Exactly. It was white. The family’s traditional attire will always be white. The basic attire is white, with its colors. Colors were added to it later to make it more joyful. The white attire represents respect and seriousness. It’s nice. It looks nice. When you wear white attire, you know it’s something else. When you have to mix the youth with the elderly, with older people, you need a different look to appear– To look with vitality and strong. The youth finds those things attractive. It’s really something when there are people in their 70s and others in their 40s or 30s and some youth. When you mix all this up, the show has such a positive potential that it runs on its own. Everyone feels part of the equation. It’s for the public, not them. The team directly reflects all the spirituality emanating from the stage onto the public. And that energy bounces right back from the public to us when they express their gratitude. It’s hard to describe the potential of the emotions felt on stage and experienced by the audience off-stage. The continuous exchange elevates the experience, creating a genuine and heartfelt show. You need to be genuine and giving.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

I like what you said about the colors, how you do it to get accepted by the youth and offer them this. You do this to be a little more modern.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

It makes the mix possible.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

You said the white attire is something else. It’s beautiful and should never be forgotten.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We’ll go to the white attires now. If I were to dress in white, all these young girls who know how to represent us, who already represent us, the same thing would happen. The same thing will happen because they are on an ongoing path of spiritual growth, and they know what to do when the time comes. Here, they, or those groups there, these are mature boys and girls. When she does what she likes and dances Bomba, forget about it. They can wear whatever attire they want, but if I dress them in white, it will be worse because, as you know, [inaudible].

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, they know what to do no matter what they wear.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

What matters most is to love it, long for it, and respect it. It should be clear that the person will give it their all, that it will happen. The truth is they do it with all their heart. I remember Natalie even broke her shoes once.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

And she kept going.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We were doing it with so much affection that another person was this close to ripping her costume off. You can see what it’s all really about. The night was magical, and we were the only big group chosen to be on stage with Iris Chacón.

Male Speaker

And Ednita.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Ednita Nazario and us. We were the only Bomba band to play on that stage.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Of course. You deserve it.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We were very proud about it.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

When you prepare to give a show on stage, is there somebody who makes your attires, or do you buy them?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Yes, the attires. The costumes are made by the people who broker them. We basically wear African shirts. My daughter sends them through my brother. She sends them for the guys. Marco comes up with the look for the girls to make them look– You know. This is a team. We accept good and modern ideas. It’s not that we are outdated. We are making an incursion, and the youth are our engine and strength.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Speaking of that, we still see Bomba on stages, but on social media, we see a lot of Bombazo. Bomba is picking up steam.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

The stage is just a space; it’s not everything. After all, things don’t start on stage. Things start at home. Things start at the Batey. Things start on the street. Things start at the beach. Things don’t start on stage. Things start here, in the countryside, off stage, or wherever you’ve had to live or develop yourself. Still, your dream is getting on stage one day. Bomba wasn’t born on stage like ballet. Even so, ballet was born in the neighborhood, among the people, and they danced it, structured it, and took it to the theater. That’s how ballet was born. Bomba wasn’t born on stage; it was born during slavery through Africa and that whole slave ship movement. They’d bring people and scatter them all over and all that. That’s where all this was born. It’s not that we were born on stage; this was never rich people’s music. This was born from the suffering of a big people that were enslaved. What stage are you talking about? There were no stages there, only abuse. Now, people kept celebrating, making their music, and doing what they knew how to do. They kept working. They picked up a new culture and the idiosyncrasy of a new human being in the different places they reached. The Spanish, French, and Portuguese were in charge, and a new ethnicity was born as they started getting mixed, some more, others less. Bomba music started later on in Puerto Rico, somewhere else in [inaudible]. It’s different elsewhere, but it started spreading around all the Caribbean and below, it even reached Mexico. It reached many places. That’s what this mix is. Another thing that gave it life is– Drums were taken away from some. We were lucky not to run the same fate. So, that gave us more opportunities. Others were told, “No. You can’t play the drums here,” and their voices were silenced. [inaudible]. This is very special, so the stage thing doesn’t apply to me. That medium was used for years, for life. What’s more, it has been used since Roman times when they had people eaten alive by lions as others watched in a spectacle. I didn’t want to get on that stage with lions, but there was development, you see? In part, it is a must. Once you are on stage, you know you have reached a people’s utmost splendor.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Speaking of Bomba’s current boom, especially amongst young people, what are your thoughts? What do you think about that? Are we doing it any good? Are there things we should be careful with, or should we keep celebrating?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We should keep the tradition alive. Dad used to say, “If they dance, great, if not, great. Either way, it doesn’t matter as long as they like it. As long as they like it, I can still fix it.” It’s a matter of making sure people like it. We need to make them fall in love with it so that they will like it, leading them to develop a liking for it. Once they are there, we will lead the way. The youth do as they see and learn from what it is. As a country, we don’t have a cultural education of many years because Puerto Rico is still young in this regard. This is especially true with Bomba and typical music. We have a long way to go, but, little by little, Fine Arts schools have been covering what traditional courses have not. In the past, music was mandatory in all schools from first grade. Musicians would emerge from there. They added it back now. After regular school hours, they added extra hours for students who like dancing, singing, or music. Bomba was given an opportunity as a result because many schools have picked it up. However, there are not enough well-prepared teachers in the subject. The need was so great. For example, all those who had more or less completed high school or were professors were given the chance. As long as they know some Bomba, the little they know opens doors for them. I’d say we still have a long way to go. That’s why the book was written, and some ground is being covered in music. We need to re-educate many people currently doing their best with what they have to continue expanding this. There’s no problem with that; on the contrary, we need them. We know there’s a need and that people want it now in Puerto Rico as much as in the United States, Spain, and Mexico. Bomba is exploding in many places; this is happening. It is happening. We need more people, so it’s great that the youth have gotten involved. What’s more, even the Japanese want Bomba. We need many students; we need to prepare many teachers. We don’t have them, but we continue getting them ready. We will invent them if necessary; it doesn’t matter. Once people like and are into it, look this, look that, we must keep riding the wave now.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, we need to maintain that knowledge and keep expanding it.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We need to elaborate and improve on it; that’s why those with experience are involved, the elderly. Right now they are making mixes and all nowadays, but it doesn’t matter. That’s what young people like. You know that in the end, they will keep doing a sica, I am doing a sica and guembe, a revolution, but it’s okay. That’s how young people are. Once they get experience, these are the steps for the sica, these are the basics of Cuembé, and things will get rolling. They can learn that. The boiling point is what matters. They are involved and immersed in this. They are taking it everywhere, and since they are strong, you can jump, run, and all. Ultimately, they will reach their destination where we will do things, and they will get there because we can’t– When this exploded, it was a big surprise.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Really?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

As soon as this exploded, everybody was, because everybody has gone there. Those who weren’t part of the genre got in it and have it; they like it. It’s what’s trending now, but it’s not from when you think it is, and they know this has something because it’s part of our soul. It’s part of our legacy as Puerto Ricans. This won’t get old; this is no trend. This is here to stay. Thank God all the young people are there; otherwise–

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, we can’t let it go to waste. This isn’t just a moment, and that’s it.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Exactly.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Part of that– That’s why I’m conducting this study. We want to highlight this part of tradition. Obviously, my approach is on the side of the costumes because that’s my program. Also, it draws attention. Something about the costumes I’m very interested in and would like to know from you is that we can see many African textiles, something we didn’t see much before. Why–?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Can you hear me? I asked you about the African textiles, the African patterns we wouldn’t see before. Can you tell me a little about that?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

That’s it, okay. If we look at all this, we can see the slavery matter and how suddenly Europe went looking for people– After all, Africa is one of the oldest continents; it’s always been there. It’s always been there in different ways. That’s how it is, no matter how you look at it. It’s a whole other world. We aren’t talking about a people; we are talking about an entire continent. Africa is a very old continent, similar to the Chinese, a people that’s had a long life, right? Those textiles come from all of Africa. When the slaves arrived here, there were textiles here already. They would dress them with white clothes of very bad quality to work, but all their textiles were there. Now, with the approach movement, this has returned because here, we are still a mix of Africans and a mix of Spaniards and Europeans and such. We are all mixed one way or the other. We are mixed. However, when it’s about the drums, there’s this part [inaudible]. The drums represent Africa. It’s a barrel with a piece of leather that you can play. The dances are done in the Spanish style, some in the French style, and others in the local style. The textile movement started because people recognized Africa was there, alive. If you visit Africa, you will see lots of costumes. I have brought many bands from Africa to Puerto Rico because they had something to do with Puerto Rico one way or the other. All these African textiles have always been regarded positively. Now, they have sort of become part of the same movement, and you can put on a turban; it’s cool. Putting on necklaces is cool now, some African shirts, within what’s called projection, we can feel it. We aren’t saying, because people around here are mixed; no one is really black or really white here. There’s a little of everything. We are Creoles. We are a mix. We are a generation that’s almost brand new and still developing. People like Spanish culture just as much as African culture, you know? It’s like we have it all inside. We have endless things, cool things, which makes us more interesting. That’s important. That’s great. Women are marking themselves. I’ve never done it, but my daughter and the other one have marks. Young people and everybody today have marks. That’s great, you know? It’s something from ancient times; African people used to do it. The Chinese and Japanese marked themselves, too, [inaudible]. I don’t do anything to myself because I– What’s more, I used to wear earrings, but not anymore. You know.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

That has always been a part of humanity, from the moment the world exists. Do you understand? So, we can’t be criticizing. If you like it, then go for it. If you want to do it, many people put many things on their skin. It’s all trending now. They do it. In my days, they wouldn’t let us do those things. We couldn’t even wear earrings.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, if they feel called to do it, then they should. Regarding African textiles, it might be they feel connected to them. They feel represented.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

They are connected. I think so. It’s part of the same thing, and it looks good.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Exactly. It’s catchy; it gets your attention.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

It’s like everyone looks for– I see the girls look for their own style, even in their scarfs. It’s like they look for their own identity within it all. “If I fix this scarf this way or this way, it will look different from hers.” It looks good on her because of her personality. After all, we aren’t all the same. We are similar, but everyone has their own edges. Do you know what I mean?

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Exactly. They have individuality in something that is part of the community. Everyone has their own style.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Sure. Like the earrings or the scarf you are wearing. It looks good, you know.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes. Everyone has their own.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

They look for their roots, inside their roots.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Exactly. Before we finish, I would like to talk about the Bomba regions. I’ve learned there are different rhythms and regions.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Yes, different rhythms. Exactly. Many were lost. Many Bomba rhythms were lost because nobody thought, “I will play this, and I will never die.” That’s where our fight dealing with development started, [inaudible] were lost. These days, we don’t know anything about many rhythms that were lost, and we have seen lists full of them. They had influence. Those influences would reach us in Puerto Rico from the Caribbean. Some stayed, but others didn’t. Thinking about all that and with Dimas, David, who owns a studio, and my son. There’s a group of people talking about the same language, even mine. “Look, I am recording Bomba rhythms with David.” Dimas said, “I am making music. We can all continue and get together to write the book.” Now it’s secured. There’s no way anything can be lost. It will be added there. Now, young people have more chances to see the [inaudible], and they see the rhythms, the drums, the primo, and the buleador. The buleador is the one that keeps the steady rhythm; it is made of leather from a male goat because the sound is softer. This is a Sicá. This is a Cuembé. You dance to it differently. You can’t dance to a Cuembé as you would dance to a Sicá, nor a Sicá [unintelligible 00:57:00]. You have to keep the beat. There’s a certain idiosyncrasy to entering the Batey to greet the drummer, the percussionist, as in saying thank you for being here so I can dance. They are different. There, it will explain that a Sicá is not the same as a Yubá; the rhythms are different. Still, you learn these rhythms and develop them little by little. There’s almost always a rhythm you master better than another, and often, if I master one better than another, I need to play it because I master it and learn the other one. This learning never ends. It’s important to know that if I’m dancing Sicá, or if I’m dancing Cuembé or Yubá or Holandés– The rhythms are different, and each rhythm has its own dance.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

The six Bomba beats are what you sing, and rhythms are what you play, they are different. Sicá, so, there’s a way of singing it. For Cuembé, there’s another way; for six– You sing about the history of why this Bomba is sung. After all, it’s a story, and there’s a reason that rhythm is played.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, it’s about respecting the rhythms.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Yes. The other 20.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We need to acknowledge them. Sometimes, a Sicá plays, but they dance Cuembé or Seis Corrido. It’s a matter of taking it slowly, and, with experience, you will say, “Over there. Damn. Here I am–” Many have told me, “I didn’t use to understand it, but I will be in any of them. It doesn’t matter.”

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Little by little, yes.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

That’s where studying comes in. “I want to learn,” I said. “Oh, okay.” From that point on, we can be useful.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, we need to get educated to respect them.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

We always say Bomba never ends; Bomba entails learning for life. For life. That’s why old people could dance Yubá. Yubá was mostly reserved for old people and the elderly because its language was very important. It’s an infinite, very important, and huge language. Young people dance Sicá, this, and the other, but it used to be reserved. Other dances were reserved for women; men could not dance to them, and so on. That’s how it is. There’s much we need to learn about Bomba dances and rhythms.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Something I’ve learned conducting these interviews is that some rhythms are danced with more skirts than others.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Exactly. More than with the body.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Can you tell me a little about that? Yes.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

Yubá is very marked. Sicá is very important because it is supposedly the opening rhythm in Bomba. Because the choruses are so short it helps. Bomba involves the drummers, the dancers, the composers, and the audience. The audience often doesn’t dance or play but sings the choruses and cheers. Everyone is part of it together. You may see people not dancing Bomba but singing the choruses. Everyone sings the choruses. Things get slower if you make your chorus too long and the audience doesn’t know it. You need to start with short choruses. A one-row chorus, at least.

San Ciprian,

ahora.

San Ciprian.

Y San Ciprian.

Y San Ciprian,

Y ahora y ahora.

San Ciprian.

Y ahora.

Y San Ciprian.

One word, San Ciprian. That’s when the Sicás come into the scene because they only have one phrase. That’s when the rhythm gets faster– Then you dance five or six, and the Bomba heats up. Then we go with the double syllables, and the choruses become a little longer, and so on. As it gets higher, we have experienced that Bomba gets lit up. If you start with choruses that are too complicated and people don’t understand them, they won’t get the Bomba until they understand these choruses. That’s why it is suggested to start with the Sicá and six simpler Bomba beats to light things up. Once it’s lit up, with longer choruses, it gets a little complicated. You have to keep learning more choruses for the audience to– Among Bomberos, it’s easy because everyone has to do it one way or the other. Those who’ve been in this for a while know many choruses and what may come. If a chorus has 8 or 12 beats and people know it, but you go somewhere new and don’t know the people there, you have to start with the simpler choruses. You then complicate things according to how heated up people get. In some places, people say [inaudible]. Others ask for a Bomba of six beats. People sing and dance to the same Bomba.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

That’s very important.

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

This takes learning. I am still learning to this day. I analyze, document, and see the things my old man used to tell me about. I write everything down. We reflect on these things. This never ends; daddy used to tell me that. That’s how I see it, too. It takes daily learning. You learn every day. These conversations help me because you ask me questions, and I answer. We are talking and helping you, and so on. People ask me things in the conversations I strike on the street. This helps me come up with a formula to talk and help because what matters is that everybody learns.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Yes, educating about and keeping traditions is very important, as it helps in getting them passed down. We need to educate even those who aren’t Puerto Rican; we need to tell them about this tradition. That’s why I am so grateful to have this time with you to listen to you. It’s truly a privilege. I’ve learned so much, really. Before we stop the recording, would you like to share anything else?

Jesús Cepeda Brenes

That’s what we are here for.

Amanda Ortiz Pellot

Thank you so much for your knowledge and for sharing your story, which is so important.